What makes a great RPG?

[Patine]

MMORPGs are an entirely different kettle of fish. Using one of them as a standard in a discussion about RPGs would be like saying "Ford makes the number one selling truck, so they should be the standard in this conversation about blenders."

Well, thus far, it's been practically NOTHING but the Elder Scrolls, or direct comparison to or against, and most other attempts to bring up, in any meaningful way, any other single-player RPG on their merits and qualities, including ones I, myself, have made has just been ignored by most posting here moreso than rebutted, and then the conversation immediately steers back to the Elder Scrolls as though the deviating post(s) hadn't even been made. I'm just finding the narrow, pin-pick focus of this thread's de facto conversation subject material REALLY wearing on me.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Well, thus far, it's been practically NOTHING but the Elder Scrolls, or direct comparison to or against, and most other attempts to bring up, in any meaningful way, any other single-player RPG on their merits and qualities, including ones I, myself, have made has just been ignored by most posting here moreso than rebutted, and then the conversation immediately steers back to the Elder Scrolls as though the deviating post(s) hadn't even been made. I'm just finding the narrow, pin-pick focus of this thread's de facto conversation subject material REALLY wearing on me.

I think you are somehow missing the references to the Witcher series, which since it is also widely played offers common grounds that most people can make relatable references to. I'm going to look back through the thread to find what games you referenced in your posts and see if you have any grounds for your beef.

EDIT:

As I suspected, you have not made ANY "attempts to bring up, in any meaningful way, any other single-player RPG on their merits and qualities." The only posts you've made that even mention any games are posts where you respond to a game someone else brought up with a basic 'that game, ewwwwww' type reply and provide no analysis or justifications for it.

 

[Patine]

I think you are somehow missing the references to the Witcher series, which since it is also widely played offers common grounds that most people can make relatable references to. I'm going to look back through the thread to find what games you referenced in your posts and see if you have any grounds for your beef.

Here, I'll do it for you.

Even though I personally live in RL in the city where was founded and centred (Edmonton, Alberta) and I used to walk quite often by the building their headquarters were on the third floor (above a two-floor book store called Chapters) on Whyte Avenue near the University of Alberta campus, I must say, I only REALLY like a few of their games in the end - mostly Baldur's Gate 1 and Icewind Dale 1 & 2 - the others REALLY bugged me for varying reasons. Might & Magic 6-9 were pretty good too, actually, if a bit simplistic, even for their day. I love and still play WoW, and I started when BC was just released, but BC (and the mechanics, framework, set-up, and layout it directly inherited from Vanilla - the "good old days" stuff, as some older players call it, I feel I could not return to - it was just too irritating, and even though finding Mankirk's Wife after wandering around the Barrens for aimlessly for WEEKS and killing HUNDREDS of Goretusk boars who have no livers and HUNDREDS of Barrens raptors who have no heads just to gather up a few said livers and heads is a mark of pride among some players, I don't have the patience or time for that in a REACREATIONAL activity) - my favourite expansions all-in-all were Wrath of the Lich and Mists and Pandaria, and I absolutely DETESTED Warlords of Draenor to the core. I also quite like Rift as MMO's as well. As old school ones go, I'm quite of the Ultima series, before Ultima 8.

My first post on this thread, where I made a list, in good faith, of many of my favourite RPG's, but DIDN'T mention the Elder Scrolls, or use them as a standard of measuring against. UTTERLY IGNORED, as was the poster right above me, who did exactly the same sort of post I did. And, ignored by immediately returning to the topic of Elder Scrolls.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

My first post on this thread, where I made a list, in good faith, of many of my favourite RPG's, but DIDN'T mention the Elder Scrolls, or use them as a standard of measuring against. UTTERLY IGNORED, as was the poster right above me, who did exactly the same sort of post I did. And, ignored by immediately returning to the topic of Elder Scrolls.

Yeah, I saw your laundry list of games played. Here's a couple hints...

"I liked this game, didn't like that game" doesn't provide room for any further discussion. Someone might make a reply similar to the kind you make; ie "you like that game, ewww" just to see if they can troll up a flame war over it, but without any grounds for why you liked it there is no contribution to the discussion.

The rest of your post, all about WoW and other MMOs, just like your first post all about pen and paper RPGs, is far enough off topic that it got appropriately ignored.

If you don't want to be UTTERLY IGNORED, try posting something relevant to the topic.

 

[Patine]

Yeah, I saw your laundry list of games played. Here's a couple hints...

"I liked this game, didn't like that game" doesn't provide room for any further discussion. Someone might make a reply similar to the kind you make; ie "you like that game, ewww" just to see if they can troll up a flame war over it, but without any grounds for why you liked it there is no contribution to the discussion.

The rest of your post, all about WoW and other MMOs, just like your first post all about pen and paper RPGs, is far enough off topic that it got appropriately ignored.

If you don't want to be UTTERLY IGNORED, try posting something relevant to the topic.

And that FAR OFF TOPIC bit. I don't see the words "single-player" or "computer" prefixing "RPG" in the thread title. A few people here were ignored or chastened for going outside a topic that's not even definitively stated AT ALL in the limited scope that is claimed by you and a few others in the thread title.

 

[Arakhor]

Well, maybe instead of arguing about it, be the change you want to see in the thread.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

And that FAR OFF TOPIC bit. I don't see the words "single-player" or "computer" prefixing "RPG" in the thread title. A few people here were ignored or chastened for going outside a topic that's not even definitively stated AT ALL in the limited scope that is claimed by you and a few others in the thread title.

I think the OP made that pretty clear. Perhaps if you had read it?

Well, since it's obvious that your response to having your off topic posts ignored has been throwing a tantrum, and your response to being advised as to why you were ignored in the first place is just elevating your tantrum I suppose the only sensible thing to do is to go back to ignoring your posts here until you offer something on topic that contributes to the conversation at hand. I did try to help you out though.

 

[Lexicus]

One of the firs RPGs I played, if not the first, was Spooky Castle/Kid Mystic, which I loved because it was relatively simple, had great music and atmosphere, and didn't take itself remotely seriously.

 

[Patine]

Well, maybe instead of arguing about it, be the change you want to see in the thread.

That becomes difficult if everything I post to accomplish such a change gets ignored, and then back to Elder Scrolls.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

One of the firs RPGs I played, if not the first, was Spooky Castle/Kid Mystic, which I loved because it was relatively simple, had great music and atmosphere, and didn't take itself remotely seriously.

This gets back to what I said about the player being the most (perhaps only?) important thing. Immersion comes from the player, not the complexity of the game or the quality of the graphics.

 

[brennan]

First RPG I played had no graphics. It was a book.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

First RPG I played had no graphics. It was a book.

Was this just a smart remark, or are you referring to one of those books where you make choices and depending on your choice it sends you to different pages? Those were, in reality, perhaps the very first "single player role playing games."

 

[Lexicus]

This gets back to what I said about the player being the most (perhaps only?) important thing. Immersion comes from the player, not the complexity of the game or the quality of the graphics.

Well the player at the time was under the age of ten so easily immersed in just about anything.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Well the player at the time was under the age of ten so easily immersed in just about anything.

Aha! The problem with RPGs becomes clear! We have just gotten older.

Clearly the developers' fault.

 

[Broken_Erika]

I fail to see what any of this has to do with Rocket Propelled Grenades......

 

[brennan]

...are you referring to one of those books where you make choices and depending on your choice it sends you to different pages? Those were, in reality, perhaps the very first "single player role playing games."

Yep:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Warlock_of_Firetop_Mountain

1st edition 1982.

 

[Patine]

Yep:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Warlock_of_Firetop_Mountain

1st edition 1982.

I was SLIGHTLY later on the Fighting Fantasy bandwagon. This was my first book in the series I actually played.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Citadel_of_Chaos

But that was after playing the first three or four Grail Quest titles, I believe. So, obviously, Citadel of Chaos was not a fresh, hot-off-the-presses new release when I first played it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grailquest

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I fail to see what any of this has to do with Rocket Propelled Grenades......

After you level up you can equip them in the launcher slot in MP call of duty games. It's an RPG element that allows you to equip an RPG. Bit of a stretch, but not as much of one as the face of whoever you hit with it.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

But it was so immersion breaking when I had to find the right page to continue the game!

/sarcasm

I believe my point about the player being the most, and probably only, important thing has been proven. Unfortunately for them, current game developers are stuck with the players they have. Fortunately for us, we can always enjoy games because as the player we are in complete control of the biggest determining factor; ourselves.

That said, I'm going to risk a tangent and say that one of the most fun games I've played as an RPG has been Rome:TW, which of course was never designed to be an RPG. Picking a single family member to "play," and using auto resolve for any battles when "my character" isn't in charge makes it very challenging in terms of the strategy game, and trying to maneuver yourself into command of the faction provides an added facet to the game that is fun as well.

 

[EgonSpengler]

I wonder if those old "Choose Your Own Adventure" books would be of any value today, in terms of seeing how to craft a constantly-branching story? Googling it, I recognize some of the covers from my collection (...as a kid, these books are long gone). I remember the guy on the cover of Deadwood City kind of freaked me out when I was little.