What Native American tribe do you expect/want?

[Louis XXIV]

Are you sure you're not thinking of Galleys as seen in this post here? The barbarian galley is next to a civ's trireme for comparison.

 

[fat_tonle]

Are you sure you're not thinking of Galleys as seen in this post here? The barbarian galley is next to a civ's trireme for comparison.

I have played with Turks many times, and yeah, if you camp out long enough to a coastal camp, they start spawning triremes in the late classical and medieval ages. That still wouldn't conflict with a UU replacement in the ancient and classical eras. I don't consider a brute to be a UU though. The art work is slightly different but its meant to be the same unit as a warrior. Galleys certainly are a UU. But would this replace a spearmen or a swordmen? I don't know why they'd go out of their way to diversify barbarians to that extent.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Well, it wouldn't replace Swordsmen since the barbarians don't appear as units that require resources (to my knowledge, although I've also never seen Barbarian Triremes before, just Galleys, Galleasses, Privateers, etc.). My thought was the first tier for each would be a Barbarian unit. A barbarian Tomahawk (or Axe Thrower) would replace an Archer because it's a ranged unit.

 

[Joe Hoofer]

I hope they're called the Lakota. That sounds nicer.

 

[fat_tonle]

Can anyone recollect seeing Barbarian swordsmen or horsemen in their vanilla games? Louis may be right about that not being possible (I could be thinking of Civ IV), but barbarian triremes are there, analogous to pikemen, I am certain of that. Otherwise, there could be some validity to a barbarian UU, although an axe thrower does not seem a likely choice. I would have went with a javelin thrower or something more pragmatic. So I think this could end up replacing swordsmen or spearmen in the classical era. Assuming the pikemen line is unaltered for barbarians, then spearmen have to be in by default. So this could be a swordsmen replacement. Just seems like a reach.

 

[Montezumas Hat]

I was pretty sure Sioux were a given for a while, but whoever mentioned Poland made a good point. If they didn't find a new leader for the Pueblo (I'm personally hoping they did), they might have defaulted to Sioux...except for the fact that Poland is already addressing horses. I don't think this entirely rules out Sioux, but I feel like between attempting to branch out with Pueblo and already having another horse-related civ in the works, they probably went with something else.

What is that something else? No idea. Between the achievement list, scenario and recognizable leader, I think Shawnee might have the best chance now.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Here is my concept for the Shawnee:

Leader: Tecumseh
UA: Coalition of the Peoples - double influence with Militaristic city-states, which grant Shawnee UUs when appropriate.

UU: Red Sticks - replaces longswordsman, has Counting Coup ability where it adopts a promotion from an enemy that it defeats until it defeats another enemy. No iron.

UU: Tomahawk Warriors - replaces pikemen, no bonus vs. horse, can move after attacking, have defensive evasion (like Slingers).

 

[seancolorado]

Here is my concept for the Shawnee:

Leader: Tecumseh
UA: Coalition of the Peoples - double influence with Militaristic city-states, which grant Shawnee UUs when appropriate.

UU: Red Sticks - replaces longswordsman, has Counting Coup ability where it adopts a promotion from an enemy that it defeats until it defeats another enemy. No iron.

UU: Tomahawk Warriors - replaces pikemen, no bonus vs. horse, can move after attacking, have defensive evasion (like Slingers).

First of all, refreshing to see a concept that isn't ridiculously OP.

For the UA, you mention "which grant Shawnee UUs when appropriate." What does the when appropriate entail exactly?

 

[Arachnofiend]

When you have the tech and the unit is not obsolete, I would assume. I would wonder how that would interact with militaristic CS UU's, though. If, for example, Hanoi is giving out Samurai and you are its ally, would you end up receiving Samurai or Red Sticks?

 

[Gucumatz]

Or why not, every allied city state provides militaristic units. Militaristic city states provide 2 units at once

 

[tnick777]

I'll do one for the three tribes, one of which I hope makes it.

Powhatan Nation Issue with this is they are very similar to the Iroquois
Leader: Wahunsenacawh
Capital: Werowocomoco
UA: First contact - receive a one time science boost when you meet a civ for the first time, research agreements yield 25% more science.
UI: Maize Farm - built on a wheat tile, +2 +1
UU: Tomahawk Warrior (swordsmen replacement)- Ignores terrain, bonus when fighting in woods, gains small amount of science for every unit killed of stronger civ.

Sioux Nation Seems most likely given track record
Leader: Sitting Bull
Capital: ??????
UA: Ghost Dance - Every time a great prophet is expended, receive a boost in science and culture (Lumped sum)
UB: TeePee (stable replacement) - Horse resources doubled, no maintenance, +2 and +2 for every horse tile worked by the city, +50% on mounted units when at war
UU: Mounted Rifleman (calvary replacement) - +2 movement on flat terrain, +15% fighting bonus against Civs of greater literacy, +15% defensive bonus if flanked by another Mounted Rifleman

Shawnee
Leader: Tecumseh
Capital: ??????
UA: Tecumseh's Comet - Friendly city states will enter war on your side if you are attacked by another major civ (if they are not allied with the aggressor), resting place for all city states at +20
UB: Mound (temple replacement) - +3 along with normal Temple attributes
UI: Trade Post (camp replacement) - Gives free copy of luxury resource in tile

 

[awesome]

I was pretty sure Sioux were a given for a while, but whoever mentioned Poland made a good point. If they didn't find a new leader for the Pueblo (I'm personally hoping they did), they might have defaulted to Sioux...except for the fact that Poland is already addressing horses. I don't think this entirely rules out Sioux, but I feel like between attempting to branch out with Pueblo and already having another horse-related civ in the works, they probably went with something else.

What is that something else? No idea. Between the achievement list, scenario and recognizable leader, I think Shawnee might have the best chance now.

I'm not expecting the Sioux anymore, but it's because of morocco, not Poland. People seem to forget that we started with plenty of civs with mounted units, including camel archers. Then, they weakened the camel archer and gave it more movement and a promotion and we got keshiks. Then, when the first expansion came out, we got more civs with mounted units, not just the Huns.

So, my point is basically that just because Poland has a mounted unit and building doesn't mean we can't have another civilization with a mounted unit, as can be seen by the fact that we just got Morocco. Of course, that same example is the one that makes me doubt the Sioux, but it is an example nonetheless. The Sioux don't need a mounted ability or building.

I'm going to probably have to post a gloating thread if it turns out to, in fact, be a barbarian unit. I still don't get how people can be confident it's a UU when it appeared as a barbarian. The amount of hoops to jump through seem odd.

Don't be that guy.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

When you have the tech and the unit is not obsolete, I would assume. I would wonder how that would interact with militaristic CS UU's, though. If, for example, Hanoi is giving out Samurai and you are its ally, would you end up receiving Samurai or Red Sticks?

I should have fleshed that out a bit.

Appropriate means when you have the tech and it is not obsolete, yes. But I would also have militaristic city-states give the Shawnee UUs to them when friends as well as allies, and it would supersede contemporary UUs the city-state might normally give away.

 

[SkaisonFire]

I'll do one for the three tribes, one of which I hope makes it.
Sioux Nation Seems most likely given track record
Leader: Sitting Bull
Capital: ??????
UA: Ghost Dance - Every time a great prophet is expended, receive a boost in science and culture (Lumped sum)
UB: TeePee (stable replacement) - Horse resources doubled, no maintenance, +2 and +2 for every horse tile worked by the city, +50% on mounted units when at war
UU: Mounted Rifleman (calvary replacement) - +2 movement on flat terrain, +15% fighting bonus against Civs of greater literacy, +15% defensive bonus if flanked by another Mounted Rifleman

I think the general public find a Teepee UB pretty revolting, I would make it so instead of that they would have a great prophet replacement (shaman or something slightly more PC) that can do the Ghost Dance, recieveing a culture boost but instead also a combat bonus for 10 turns or something.

make the UA something else and you've got a great idea

 

[Louis XXIV]

^ I don't think a Teepee is offensive for the Sioux. It's only offensive when it's associated with tribes that had Wigwams or Longhouses. Given that the Iroquois living quarters is associated with the Iroquois, I could see the Sioux living quarters associated with the Sioux.

Don't be that guy.

I probably won't be, but I find it frustrating that people can be so confident that the one thing a unit shown as a barbarian cannot be is a barbarian.

 

[Rajul]

We should remember that civs in BNW are either fan-civs or civs related to the new mechanisms.
If The NA nation belongs to the 1st category, then the Sioux are the only real solution now.
If it belongs to the second category, then we should look for nations that are specialized in:
-Trade Routes (Pueblo fits here, but...);
-Great works;
-Tourism;
-Archeology;
-Ideology.
Not an expert about Native Americans but it seems hard to find something here. Any ideas?

 

[fat_tonle]

Tipi could be a UI. Extra combat boost or defense on plains or something like that. I don't think a gold or culture buff fits the bill. Maybe a faith buff could work. Or a food buff to mark the nomadic nature of the civ. 2+ food on non irrigated plains tiles.

 

[Veras]

I know I didn't read the topic and the subjects being discussed here, but wouldn't Red Cloud be a better leader than Sitting Bull for the Sioux?

 

[codepoet]

We should remember that civs in BNW are either fan-civs or civs related to the new mechanisms.
If The NA nation belongs to the 1st category, then the Sioux are the only real solution now.
If it belongs to the second category, then we should look for nations that are specialized in:
-Trade Routes (Pueblo fits here, but...);
-Great works;
-Tourism;
-Archeology;
-Ideology.
Not an expert about Native Americans but it seems hard to find something here. Any ideas?

Shawnee could fit the bill for some Archaeology perk. It could fit into a UI Serpent Mound. It could be built on hill tiles, provide some useful bonus in the early game and then gain an archaeology perk later in the game.

 

[strijder20]

I hope there won't be any N-American tribe as a new civilization, I can think of better choices to fill the last slot. But then again, the Pueblo were ditched, so it makes sense they'd replace them with another one of those tribes.