What needs fixing before we release V25

[ls612]

I am starting this thread because in the past our freezes have been too deadline-oriented, and have cause the releases to have some bad bugs/deployment issues. I think that for our future freezes we should create a list like this one, and list all of the known errors/issues with the current working version once we enter the freeze. Then, we don't release the next version until everything is fixed, even if that takes more time than a week. That way we will have more stable releases, which will attract more players.

So, for V25, I know of the following major issues

• The Transhuman Era is rather in a messy state. MrAzure is supposed to clean that up, but I don't know where he is, or when he intends to do that.
  [*]The Volcano event messages don't work properly with Viewports
  [*]Animism has the wrong icon (I don't know which one is the correct one.)
• There is an issue where there are randomly revealed rings, which should hopefully be fixed soon. (But not before V25)
  [*]Viewports have graphical issues with the Great Wall.
  [*]Some of the free prophets for DP still aren't working right.
  [*]Barbarians can build some Culture Units.
  [*]Viewports still have some graphical artifacts relating to unrevealed tiles.
  [*]The Inflation calculations are messed up.

If anyone else has issues that I have forgotten, please post them. I think that we should not release until all of the issues are resolved.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Animism has the wrong icon (I don't know which one is the correct one.)

I see if I can pinch one from another mod, unless that was what was done to get the Shaman icon.

Some of the free prophets for DP still aren't working right.

I was under the impression that I had fixed all these. Which ones aren't working. The last I fixed was the Shamanism one.

 

[ls612]

I was under the impression that I had fixed all these. Which ones aren't working. The last I fixed was the Shamanism one.

Did you get the Druidism one as well? I read someone else was having problems with that one.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Did you get the Druidism one as well? I read someone else was having problems with that one.

I fixed all of them because none had been done! Then I got rid of the old code that kept compatibility with RoM:AND which is where I think I broke Shamanism. Then I fixed Shamanism. If there have not been any errors on this since the Shaman one then I have done something to fixed them all. Pending someone having a problem.

 

[ls612]

I fixed all of them because none had been done! Then I got rid of the old code that kept compatibility with RoM:AND which is where I think I broke Shamanism. Then I fixed Shamanism. If there have not been any errors on this since the Shaman one then I have done something to fixed them all. Pending someone having a problem.

OK, that's good. I'll cross that one off the list.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I just recycled the RoM:AND civic Animism icon for our tech. At least it is different.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I'll remind again that those reveal rings have been with us long before Koshling's viewports so it can't be a bug there. Not sure WHERE it'd be but not there.

 

[Koshling]

I'll remind again that those reveal rings have been with us long before Koshling's viewports so it can't be a bug there. Not sure WHERE it'd be but not there.

Volkarya posted save that reproduces it, so it should be diagnosable assuming it reproduces for me too from that. I haven't had time today, but I hope to look at it this weekend. Not a viewport issue though as you say.

There is also the Great Wall issue for viewports, but I'll be pushing a change to address that soon.

 

[BlueGenie]

Hi. I know I'm not in the deciding faction but throwing my opinion in on what I think needs fixing for the next release.

* Deciding which free promotions should carry over to old units and fix those buildings.
Buildings I can think of that aren't "done" yet are Hunting Instructions, the Religions free promotions buildings, Riding School (and possibly other mounted buildings, not sure which ones have free promotions), Non-Religion Wonders that give free promotions.
The one I think should not are the Dojo's and Shaolin's Temple. Martial Arts I think should come unit is born and raised in the environment that has the Martial Arts Tradition. In fact I'm thinking those promotions might even be good or at least accurate if they were not possible to gain with experience and levelling up either, but that's just my opinion and making just those promotions rarer. (basically anyone can learn the basics but to become a master takes a lot more so maybe the first available to anyone but the second (and third if there is one) only granted by training in the right cities, or third available by experience only if one has the second)

* Fixing the Culture "problem" would be a priority for me. Simple to fix and I even gave suggestions as to what levels could be set, derived from my own play-testing.
Right now things that are culture dependent can be built way too early, and using the 3rd ring option without Administration buildings comes in very, very much too early.

* Slavery would be good to have somewhat fixed/nerfed but I'm guessing that till be for the next update. Still throwing it in here.

* AI's tendency to set a stack of units on a plot beside/between cities when under attack, ending up losing the city/cities without using those to defend it/them with would be good to have fixed.
Also if a script telling the AI that if the attacker has a under a certain number of units in their attacking force (like 15) it needs at MOST, even if with low to 0.00% probability to dislodge them, AttackingUnits*4 to take them out, which should be a priority, especially if a small force is invading and using a Hero or other very highly promoted unit to take out the defenders by a couple every turn only, winning a slow war by attrition. Though, that should probably go under AI rather than here... *chuckle*

Anyway, thanks for listening in, Cheers

 

[ls612]

Hi. I know I'm not in the deciding faction but throwing my opinion in on what I think needs fixing for the next release.

* Deciding which free promotions should carry over to old units and fix those buildings.
Buildings I can think of that aren't "done" yet are Hunting Instructions, the Religions free promotions buildings, Riding School (and possibly other mounted buildings, not sure which ones have free promotions), Non-Religion Wonders that give free promotions.
The one I think should not are the Dojo's and Shaolin's Temple. Martial Arts I think should come unit is born and raised in the environment that has the Martial Arts Tradition. In fact I'm thinking those promotions might even be good or at least accurate if they were not possible to gain with experience and levelling up either, but that's just my opinion and making just those promotions rarer. (basically anyone can learn the basics but to become a master takes a lot more so maybe the first available to anyone but the second (and third if there is one) only granted by training in the right cities, or third available by experience only if one has the second)

* Fixing the Culture "problem" would be a priority for me. Simple to fix and I even gave suggestions as to what levels could be set, derived from my own play-testing.
Right now things that are culture dependent can be built way too early, and using the 3rd ring option without Administration buildings comes in very, very much too early.

* Slavery would be good to have somewhat fixed/nerfed but I'm guessing that till be for the next update. Still throwing it in here.

* AI's tendency to set a stack of units on a plot beside/between cities when under attack, ending up losing the city/cities without using those to defend it/them with would be good to have fixed.
Also if a script telling the AI that if the attacker has a under a certain number of units in their attacking force (like 15) it needs at MOST, even if with low to 0.00% probability to dislodge them, AttackingUnits*4 to take them out, which should be a priority, especially if a small force is invading and using a Hero or other very highly promoted unit to take out the defenders by a couple every turn only, winning a slow war by attrition. Though, that should probably go under AI rather than here... *chuckle*

Anyway, thanks for listening in, Cheers

1. Hmm, that doesn't sound too good, but it can probably wait until after release.

2. Yes, that was my thought exactly. I was thinking of doubling culture pop thresholds, but I won't do that before we release unless there isn't any opposition.

3. Slavery IMO is good enough for now, as further changes would require some more coding.

4. Koshling is better suited to comment on the AI issues.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Hi. I know I'm not in the deciding faction but throwing my opinion in on what I think needs fixing for the next release.
....
Anyway, thanks for listening in, Cheers

My views on these

* Deciding which free promotions should carry over to old units and fix those buildings.
Buildings I can think of that aren't "done" yet are Hunting Instructions, the Religions free promotions buildings, Riding School (and possibly other mounted buildings, not sure which ones have free promotions), Non-Religion Wonders that give free promotions.
The one I think should not are the Dojo's and Shaolin's Temple. Martial Arts I think should come unit is born and raised in the environment that has the Martial Arts Tradition. In fact I'm thinking those promotions might even be good or at least accurate if they were not possible to gain with experience and levelling up either, but that's just my opinion and making just those promotions rarer. (basically anyone can learn the basics but to become a master takes a lot more so maybe the first available to anyone but the second (and third if there is one) only granted by training in the right cities, or third available by experience only if one has the second)

No or Maybe Is anyone currently working on the free promotions when you enter a city?

I agree that I would prefer the "eastern martial arts" promotions only be obtainable as free promotions. The "general martial arts" eg Combat I would stay the same.

* Fixing the Culture "problem" would be a priority for me. Simple to fix and I even gave suggestions as to what levels could be set, derived from my own play-testing.
Right now things that are culture dependent can be built way too early, and using the 3rd ring option without Administration buildings comes in very, very much too early.

Yes If this is as easy as you suggest then it should be done. However I would like to see amendments to "Realistic Culture Spread" also. Many times it says your borders are expanding when they don't!

* Slavery would be good to have somewhat fixed/nerfed but I'm guessing that till be for the next update. Still throwing it in here.

No. Still needs some more discussion, but more importantly, I don't think I can get to the coding needed for this to work in a suitable time frame for v25.

* AI's tendency to set a stack of units on a plot beside/between cities when under attack, ending up losing the city/cities without using those to defend it/them with would be good to have fixed.
Also if a script telling the AI that if the attacker has a under a certain number of units in their attacking force (like 15) it needs at MOST, even if with low to 0.00% probability to dislodge them, AttackingUnits*4 to take them out, which should be a priority, especially if a small force is invading and using a Hero or other very highly promoted unit to take out the defenders by a couple every turn only, winning a slow war by attrition. Though, that should probably go under AI rather than here... *chuckle*

Can't comment.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Animism has the wrong icon (I don't know which one is the correct one.)

Here is the correct Animism tech icon.

 

[ls612]

Here is the correct Animism tech icon.

Do you want this one to replace DH's icon?

 

[Hydromancerx]

* Deciding which free promotions should carry over to old units and fix those buildings.
Buildings I can think of that aren't "done" yet are Hunting Instructions, the Religions free promotions buildings, Riding School (and possibly other mounted buildings, not sure which ones have free promotions), Non-Religion Wonders that give free promotions.
The one I think should not are the Dojo's and Shaolin's Temple. Martial Arts I think should come unit is born and raised in the environment that has the Martial Arts Tradition. In fact I'm thinking those promotions might even be good or at least accurate if they were not possible to gain with experience and levelling up either, but that's just my opinion and making just those promotions rarer. (basically anyone can learn the basics but to become a master takes a lot more so maybe the first available to anyone but the second (and third if there is one) only granted by training in the right cities, or third available by experience only if one has the second)

I disagree. Anything that has to be trained or taught (ex. Riding School, Dojos, Hunting Instructions, etc) should not get for free. Things you can get such as equipment (Poison Tips, Bamboo Armor, etc) or even Tattoos since they can be "equipped" on the body. In short I would like to draw the line between trained and equipped. Trained promotions are given when building the units. While armor and such can be given afterwards.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Do you want this one to replace DH's icon?

Yes please. It was the old Shamanism icon that I intended you to fix it with.

 

[Koshling]

Hi. I know I'm not in the deciding faction but throwing my opinion in on what I think needs fixing for the next release.

* AI's tendency to set a stack of units on a plot beside/between cities when under attack, ending up losing the city/cities without using those to defend it/them with would be good to have fixed.
Also if a script telling the AI that if the attacker has a under a certain number of units in their attacking force (like 15) it needs at MOST, even if with low to 0.00% probability to dislodge them, AttackingUnits*4 to take them out, which should be a priority, especially if a small force is invading and using a Hero or other very highly promoted unit to take out the defenders by a couple every turn only, winning a slow war by attrition. Though, that should probably go under AI rather than here... *chuckle*

Anyway, thanks for listening in, Cheers

I'm not planning on making furtehrn AI changes until after release, then I plan to spend the next release period more or less entirely on AI, since I have spent this one more or less entirely on viewports.

I need save games demonstrating the flaws also to diagnose them. The units stationed on good defensive terrain outsiode cities SHOULD be moving back into the cities (or attacking invaders) if the attacker makes it right to the city and they are needed there. I have not seen a case where this does not happen but if you have saves where it doesn't I can look at them...

 

[Cyrusfan]

DH, are you seeing false messages about increase in culture level? I think the 'borders are expanding' message comes up due to the city's culture level change, but in some cases, it doesn't have the oomph to affect new tiles at that time. The fix might just be rewording the message.

ls612, you wanted to fix the culture units so that the barbarians can't build them. Also in this save, I see the barbs have some trackers, and I'm not sure how they built them since I've seen barbarian human units sharing tiles with animals, so I figure they don't fight each other (unless there's some other way to get the Master Hunter building.

View attachment 327350

Also, they're just kind of camping out there. There not trying to block the resource in the next tile. SVN 3202

 

[ls612]

Does anyone mind if I double the Cultural Growth thresholds before the release? That was the idea I liked the most that BG posted for making things more balanced.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

DH, are you seeing false messages about increase in culture level? I think the 'borders are expanding' message comes up due to the city's culture level change, but in some cases, it doesn't have the oomph to affect new tiles at that time. The fix might just be rewording the message.

That message comes when my culture has reached a threshold where my borders should expand. That is what it means. It should give me at least one new tile. If you don't have realistic culture spread on you get the whole ring.

Does anyone mind if I double the Cultural Growth thresholds before the release? That was the idea I liked the most that BG posted for making things more balanced.

Can you provide details including the affects on Realistic Culture Spread.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Does anyone mind if I double the Cultural Growth thresholds before the release? That was the idea I liked the most that BG posted for making things more balanced.

Yeah its probably a good idea. Hopefully double is not too overboard. If it is we can always tweak it again.