What should the Civ VII political system be like?

[luca 83]

There are other elements and bonus that can be added, but talking about Commandments the idea is to be a "to do and keep" list of missions. For example if you have the religious doctrine Proselytism the Commandment that provides being a Theocracy is to have at least one Missionary working in a city (own or foreign) by each four cities you have, while this is fulfilled you get a x2 conversion bonus for all your missionaries, but when not this cause a loyalty penalty.
Other example is Monasticism, its Commandment is to build Monasteries in at least 50% of your cities giving you and extra +3 culture and +3 science from each one when achieved.

So the idea is to make Theocracy players to really devote themselves to keep their religious doctrines, earning bonus when achieved and malus when not.


I had to look for a more inner politics centered design because others civs having non-monarchy governments would decrease the value of their diplomatic gameplay. Still the diplomatic options is still there since you can send the Consorts to others monarchies for huge diplomatic bonuses. What I think can be changed is the need to be friendly beforehand. I suppose would not be nice to be a Consort send to an unfriendly kingdom, but for gameplay sake improve the diplomatic relation was the real point after all.

0ligarchy In a totalitarian system not governance but a party on an ideological basis always forget ideology the foundation of the secolo Especially politics in the masses from the 1800s with the culminine in the 1900s, the fascist party was not an oligarchy. the rebubblica of Venice was an oligarchy the republic of Genoa was

 

[luca 83]

Some ideas for the different options from the main elements of your society:

LEGITIMACY

- Theocracy, from each enabled religious doctrine you get a Commandment that must be keeped to unlock an additional bonus, however if any Commandment is not keeped it will show a turn timer to receive loyalty penalties from it. Most of their positive effects are directed to the population of your official religion, including a huge boost to loyalty.​

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- Monarchy, every certain number of turns you can choose a Consort from a list of Royal Houses that at the beginning are one from each owned city, plus one from every friendly civ that is also a Monarchy. Each time is generated a new set of Consorts with random bonuses, then the selected homecity would gain a powerful loyalty boost plus a title, up to three levels (1-Barony, 2-County, and 3-Duchy) for a total of 4 bonuses. Then if you keep selecting the same House you would need to grant them others cities but from here the more you keep doing it the bigger the chance of a revolt from all the cities of other houses (based on % of cities). Meanwhile Consorts from foreign Houses replace the basal loyalty bonus with a diplomatic bonus.​

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- Republic, here every kind of class, heritage or belief whose denizens represent at least 5% of your empire's total population would gain a Senator representative that provides a loyalty bonus. Also you can pick three Senators (one of each type) to provide empire wide bonuses. If the percentage for some representation is lost it raises an alert and its effect expires in 3 turns.​

AUTHORITY

- Autocracy, players can make Decrees, powerful bonuses for a specific topic to select, but only one can be in effect at once. Even if a decree can be replaced by a new one any turn the player wants, when enacted it causes a generalized loyalty malus for X number of turns, so two consecutive decrees before cool down would accumulate their negative values.​

This option also has a default loyalty penalty to any population with a value below average.​

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- Oligarchy, depending what combination of legitimacy and/or ideology the player has, certain kinds of citizens would be assigned as elites, this could be for example the clerics for Theocracy, the warriors for Monarchy, the traders for Capitalism, etc. Then every elite class would have their Pacts, a set of bonuses that can be unlocked by their level of loyalty, so the happier they are the better bonuses they provide. But to secure this you would need to invest in favors and privileges that would mean spending yields and sometimes affect the other kinds of citizens.​

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- Democracy, every certain number of turns Elections will be held. When an election is held every kind of citizen whose average loyalty is at least X level would provide their own special bonus. Here the individual bonuses are more modest but there are way more identitarian groups, so the balance of the interests of our whole population would boost every aspect of our empire.​

oigarchy is a system of government in which a small group of nobles , or economic groups , merchants command the government . the fascist and communist party, and a government based on ideology with a single party, example of oligarchy: the republic of venice republic of genoa, in your idea of oligarchy there is no ideology

 

[BuchiTaton]

It is pretty obvious you can not even grasp what is being suggested in the first place and once again fails to aport something more than random historical notes and definitions that everybody know already.

 

[luca 83]

It is pretty obvious you can not even grasp what is being suggested in the first place and once again fails to aport something more than random historical notes and definitions that everybody know already.

So you completely skip the secolo century and ideologies why? Why don't the majority like ideology too much? It is not random history, communism is a precise fundamental ideology in the secolo Multiple choice in forms of government has its limits! You cannot have static property and be a theocracy . A minimum of ideology must exist

 

[luca 83]

The Paris commune of 1871 as the Russian revolution of 1917 are not random historical events are fundamental events in history the same concept of revolution, as of ideology is not considered at all

It is pretty obvious you can not even grasp what is being suggested in the first place and once again fails to aport something more than random historical notes and definitions that everybody know already.

 

[Evie]

Still not comprehending: that ideologies equal combinations of civics. Not individual civics.

One day, you're going to actually tell us why you keep ignoring that, but I shan't hold my breath because you haven't shown much interest in what anyone else is telling you, just in repeating your mantra again and again.

 

[luca 83]

And when will you understand that ideology is fundamental in all the centuries but especially in the cent That civic choices represent an ideology: feudalism , the Enlightenment in the 1700s , communism in 1900, oligarchy in the Italian held at and Renaissance dynasties in Italy?

Still not comprehending: that ideologies equal combinations of civics. Not individual civics.

One day, you're going to actually tell us why you keep ignoring that, but I shan't hold my breath because you haven't shown much interest in what anyone else is telling you, just in repeating your mantra again and again.

 

[luca 83]

Still not comprehending: that ideologies equal combinations of civics. Not individual civics.

One day, you're going to actually tell us why you keep ignoring that, but I shan't hold my breath because you haven't shown much interest in what anyone else is telling you, just in repeating your mantra again and again.

Every choice you make in the game is a political decision, that the player chooses collective ownership, that a political choice, willed by an ideology the Marxism

 

[dagriggstar]

Every choice you make in the game is a political decision, that the player chooses collective ownership, that a political choice, willed by an ideology the Marxism

Collective ownership, a political choice, as willed by the Sapa Inca.

 

[Evie]

Ideologies are important, and yet you can point at 50 different country of the same ideologies and get 50 different actual government, becsuse ideologies are only one part of what makes them as they are. The People's Republic of China and the Soviet Union (and the Khmer Rouge) may all be communists, but they're also three very different political systems. Just the same as the multiple fascists, capitalist (or democratic) that for all they shared an ideology never had identical governments.

If you think governments can be reduced to ideologies, you are wrong. Ideologies are only one part of what makes governments as they are,

Ideologies are like Religions (and indeed ideological allegiance is pretty much just religious allegiance repackaged): people claim they all believe the same thing but never agree on what those same things actually mean.

 

[BuchiTaton]

You cannot have static property and be a theocracy . A minimum of ideology must exist

Liberation Theology is a movement with strong Socialist elements justified from a Christian perspective. It is still popular in Latin America especially with indigenous communities, nothing strange considering their communal and devotee ways of life. Even from the time of Vasco de Quiroga we had attemps to create a Christian "Utopia" in the Americas.
In a game like CIV this is an interesting idea to develop, a socialist society founded on religious values.

 

[luca 83]

Ideologies are important, and yet you can point at 50 different country of the same ideologies and get 50 different actual government, becsuse ideologies are only one part of what makes them as they are. The People's Republic of China and the Soviet Union (and the Khmer Rouge) may all be communists, but they're also three very different political systems. Just the same as the multiple fascists, capitalist (or democratic) that for all they shared an ideology never had identical governments.

If you think governments can be reduced to ideologies, you are wrong. Ideologies are only one part of what makes governments as they are,

Ideologies are like Religions (and indeed ideological allegiance is pretty much just religious allegiance repackaged): people claim they all believe the same thing but never agree on what those same things actually mean.

Surely, variants of a fascist , Nazi , Communist , Chinese , Russian , Czechoslovak , Eurocommunism , d ideology are important
We establish before, the ideology example : communism classic Russian common ownership , plan quinquennal plan , kolkoz , low production , corruption is high , the benefits , the ideology of the workers international conmitern, between the workers of other nations , stachanovist , industrial production on the rise , + industrial resources , no strikes , low probalita of riot or revolution , demands for luxury goods, low

 

[BuchiTaton]

Surely, variants of a fascist , Nazi , Communist , Chinese , Russian , Czechoslovak , Eurocommunism , d ideology are important
We establish before, the ideology example : communism classic Russian common ownership , plan quinquennal plan , kolkoz , low production , corruption is high , the benefits , the ideology of the workers international conmitern, between the workers of other nations , stachanovist , industrial production on the rise , + industrial resources , no strikes , low probalita of riot or revolution , demands for luxury goods, low

I guess games like Victoria 3 and HoI4 are also unrealistic for your standards since not even there you find this level of "rail roading" and pointless specialization. Even more those games use a system of multiple elements to mix and simulate historical goverments by the way.

 

[luca 83]

Ideologies are important, and yet you can point at 50 different country of the same ideologies and get 50 different actual government, becsuse ideologies are only one part of what makes them as they are. The People's Republic of China and the Soviet Union (and the Khmer Rouge) may all be communists, but they're also three very different political systems. Just the same as the multiple fascists, capitalist (or democratic) that for all they shared an ideology never had identical governments.

If you think governments can be reduced to ideologies, you are wrong. Ideologies are only one part of what makes governments as they are,

Ideologies are like Religions (and indeed ideological allegiance is pretty much just religious allegiance repackaged): people claim they all believe the same thing but never agree on what those same things actually mean.

Surely, variants of a fascist , Nazi , Communist , Chinese , Russian , Czechoslovak , Eurocommunism , d ideology are important
We establish before, the ideology example : communism classic Russian common ownership , plan quinquennal plan , kolkoz , low production , corruption is high , the benefits , the ideology of the workers international conmitern, between the workers of other nations , stachanovist , industrial production on the rise , + industrial resources , no strikes , low probalita of riot or revolution , demands for luxury goods, low

 

[Evie]

You already said that. It does not become more convincing because you post it a second time.

 

[dagriggstar]

For those who are pro-civics I have some questions

1) How often (on average) do you think the ideal is for switching civics ? (How many turns between switching)
2) How many civic choices should there be in the first 50 turns ?
3) What yield should be used to unlock civics ?
4) What should your culture points do in game ? Or would you get rid of them ?
5) How would you define a cultural victory ?
6) Should one factions choices influence a weaker factions choices ? If so how ?
7) Can you balance poor starts ? (So for example "ice fishing - +1 food, +1 culture to tundra river tiles" makes sense as an aspect of a culture but not an aspect of a government)
8) Are later civics always "better" ?

 

[Evie]

Weirdly, I'm working on a follow up to my Creed thread that answers most of that...further details forthcoming, but...

1. Less than Civ 6, but often enough to matter. Precise number unsure.
2. I'd generally like to unlock at least two additional ones inthe Ancient Age or Classical for each category.
3. Culture/Faith merged (back) together and called Fervor.
4. See 3. The civic tree is going back into the general research tree.
5. Merged with Religious (and Ideological) victory see Creed thread..
6. Not directly, but indirectly via religion/ideology
7. Yes, but not what you describe.
8. No, every civic, even default, should be the best in *some* situation.

 

[BackseatTyrant]

For those who are pro-civics I have some questions

1) How often (on average) do you think the ideal is for switching civics ? (How many turns between switching)
2) How many civic choices should there be in the first 50 turns ?
3) What yield should be used to unlock civics ?
4) What should your culture points do in game ? Or would you get rid of them ?
5) How would you define a cultural victory ?
6) Should one factions choices influence a weaker factions choices ? If so how ?
7) Can you balance poor starts ? (So for example "ice fishing - +1 food, +1 culture to tundra river tiles" makes sense as an aspect of a culture but not an aspect of a government)
8) Are later civics always "better" ?

1. I'm not sure there's an ideal number, at least not in solid. Making such changes, should ideally be determined by changes in conditions (be it technological, diplomatic, environmental etc) rather than by how long it has been since the last change
2. Can't think of a specific number, but it should obviously be held relatively low, so as to not cause too much choice paralysis with the player
3. Culture for the most part. Science is also fine, if we're talking about social constructs that can only be manifested through a new technology
4. I do like the idea of having a separate tech tree using another yield, but I would like to see the two tech trees be more interwoven in future implementations, so as to not cause any accidental beelining
5. IMO victory conditions should be more total. The cultural dominance has to be utter, and it should be easier for smaller civs to set up a cultural defence
6. Yes, but only indirectly. One example would be that you go mercantilism because everyone else is going mercantilism, in that specifically that economic system boosts yields from incoming trade routes, but reduces the yields for whoever is sending a trade rout to a mercantile nation, with later technologies and social constructs eventually coming in to undermine that equilibrium
7. Potentially poor starts are unfortunately a fundamental problem in most 4X games; they reflect how the choices you make as a player only really matter at the start of game, with your choices mattering less and less with each turn, as someone is bound to snowball beyond anyone else's control. This is an issue that spans far beyond the topic of this thread

 

[The_goggles_do_nothing]

1) How often (on average) do you think the ideal is for switching civics ? (How many turns between switching)

It would be interesting (in theory) if how often you could change policies was based on the communication infrastructure of your civ. A one city civ could change every turn, a two city civ connected by a roads or water could change every two turns.

 

[luca 83]

1) How often (on average) do you think the ideal is for switching civics ? (How many turns between switching)

It would be interesting (in theory) if how often you could change policies was based on the communication infrastructure of your civ. A one city civ could change every turn, a two city civ connected by a roads or water could change every two turns.

a change in policy should be generated by a revolution (again politics) created by the needs of different factions, which create parties, every revolution is a struggle between different classes and interests. a change in policy should be generated by a revolution (again politics ) created by the needs of different factions, which create parties, every revolution is a struggle between different political classes should be generated by a revolution (still political) created by the needs of the different factions, which create parties, every revolution is a struggle between classes and different interests. a change of policy should be generated by a revolution (again politics) created needs of different factions, which create parties, every revolution is a struggle between different classes and interests. politics) created for the needs of different factions, which create parties, every revolution is a struggle between different classes and interests. we