What's a Born Again Christian?

[Adamb0mb]

In Catholic Theology, we can only entrust the mercy of God and Jesus's fondness and kindness towards children to babies that are not baptized due to dying after birth, miscarriages, or abortions.

but that is new (new as in a few months ago), correct?

I seem to recall an official change in church dogma regarding the status of dead fetuses and their perpetual existence in limbo.

 

[GenMarshall]

Do Catholics hold Hebrews as part of canon?

If Hebrews you mean the book itself? The Epistle Of Saint Paul To The Hebrews is in the New Testament and is part of Biblical Canon. The books that Catholics hold as Biblical Canon (Also known as "Deutero-Canonical books", which are books missing from non-Catholic Bibles) Tobias, Judith, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus, Baruch, 1 & 2 Machabees. However these books are found in the Old Testament in the Catholic Bible.

 

[MobBoss]

This is where I ask you, what happens to unbaptized babies, unbaptized Christians, and non-Christians when they die In your theology and beliefs?

Babies are innocent in my opinion and thus go to heaven. I dont think dribbling some water on their head makes any difference on that at all. Unbaptized christians can still go to heaven - I never said baptism was a requirement for heaven, and the example of the thief on the cross an excellent example of that. Again, baptism is a symbolic choice of dedication to the ways of Christ - not a guarentee. You can be baptised and still end up in hell. Non-christians go to hell (even Ghandi.... )

 

[mangxema]

And that my friend is what places you in Protestant Christianity on the issue of infant baptism

My we're generalizing here... not all Protestant sects are the same! As I said before, Lutheran churches baptize babies.

 

[Xanikk999]

Even gandhi? Wow god sure is intolerent of other religions.

 

[MobBoss]

Even gandhi? Wow god sure is intolerent of other religions.

Uh.....yeah...you only need to read the bible to realize that.

 

[Adamb0mb]

Even gandhi? Wow god sure is intolerent of other religions.

Dude, Ghandi was hungry for hell.

 

[Xanikk999]

But why does that matter? Didnt he live a holy life?

Man small things like beileving in christ shouldnt matter over the big picture.

Knowing all these stupid things and how god is less intellegent then humans i cant see being christian.

 

[El_Machinae]

But why does that matter? Didnt he live a holy life?

Man small things like beileving in christ shouldnt matter over the big picture.

Knowing all these stupid things and how god is less intellegent then humans i cant see being christian.

The Christian god does not conform to acceptable morality; Christians don't mind. Some follow the 'might makes right' policy. Some have indoctrinated themselves to the point where they don't even register the atrocities as such.

 

[bhsup]

Almost nobody answers the 'miscarriage' question, except sometimes to small children who demand an actual answer.

I think Mark 10:13-16 is sufficient to answer that.

13And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them. 14But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
15Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.
16And he took them up in his arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them.

Is there a requirement to confess to those you have offended/injured, or are all sins considered to be sins against God?


For example, if you slept with my wife, would you be beholden to apologise to me and her, or would you be beholden to confess to God, alone in the comfort of your closet?

Hrm. I would confess to God and apologize to you. Suppose we see one another and I -don't- tell you, that's a lie of omission, so that's another sin.

 

[Mauer]

But why does that matter? Didnt he live a holy life?

Man small things like beileving in christ shouldnt matter over the big picture.

Knowing all these stupid things and how god is less intellegent then humans i cant see being christian.

The point is that it's not Dependant on what we do. If salvation could have come through any other way, than the "small thing" that Christ did, then surely he would have not died. Salvation isn't works based, it's grace only. That is, unearned favor and forgiveness.

 

[Xanikk999]

The point is that it's not Dependant on what we do. If salvation could have come through any other way, than the "small thing" that Christ did, then surely he would have not died. Salvation isn't works based, it's grace only. That is, unearned favor and forgiveness.

Gods priorities are not straight. Why should a criminal who lived by raping, murdering and stealing go to heaven if he beileves in christ when a good man who lived a holy life go to hell for just not beileving in christ?

Sounds foolish to me.

 

[Mauer]

Indeed. He takes the foolish things of this world to confound the wise.

 

[El_Machinae]

I think Mark 10:13-16 is sufficient to answer that.

Maybe, it's not as clear as it could be. Though being 'vague' on the status of miscarriages is the best policy for a religion, if it wants to survive.

Hrm. I would confess to God and apologize to you. Suppose we see one another and I -don't- tell you, that's a lie of omission, so that's another sin.

I kinda agree, though we were taught differently. It's just that many 'born-agains' seem to feel little need to apologise for offenses, which I find confusing.

In strict Christianity, there is no onus to forgive someone unless they ask for forgiveness. It's a bit rude to not apologise and seek forgiveness of your fellow man, since it deprives them the opportunity to forgive you.

 

[Mauer]

I kinda agree, though we were taught differently. It's just that many 'born-agains' seem to feel little need to apologise for offenses, which I find confusing.

That's pretty broad and in general Have there been alot of "Christians" that have done something to you? Or just a few? Or is this just a blanket statement? (no sarcasm or anything, serious question)

 

[PrincepsAmerica]

Gods priorities are not straight. Why should a criminal who lived by raping, murdering and stealing go to heaven if he beileves in christ when a good man who lived a holy life go to hell for just not beileving in christ?

Sounds foolish to me.

It is foolish and would not happen.

 

[GenMarshall]

Is there a requirement to confess to those you have offended/injured, or are all sins considered to be sins against God?

For example, if you slept with my wife, would you be beholden to apologise to me and her, or would you be beholden to confess to God, alone in the comfort of your closet?

Again, this depends on what denomination you fall under:
Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and some Anglicans/Episcopals confess their sins to a priest who acts as in persona Christi. Catholics believe that no priest, as an individual man, however pious or learned, has power to forgive sins. This power belongs to God alone; however, God can and does exercise it through the Catholic priesthood. Catholics believe God exercises the power of forgiveness by means of the sacrament of penance, which can be administered validly by every validly ordained priest or bishop.

but that is new (new as in a few months ago), correct?

I seem to recall an official change in church dogma regarding the status of dead fetuses and their perpetual existence in limbo.

Ahh, the imbus infantium or limbus puerorum. (Note, I will say limbus infantium to differentiate and separate the other kind of Limbo that is in Church Dogma, limbus patrum or Limbo of the Fathers) Believe it or not, that is not new. First, limbus infantium was never part of the church Dogma nor was it taught as a Dogma. It was not a sound Dogma due because many theologicans have pondered on the salvation of unbaptized children. In 1984, the Cardinal Ratzinger, rejected the claim that children who die unbaptised cannot attain salvation, he was speaking for many academic theologians of his background and pre-conciliar training. In 1992, it was firlmy reaffirmed in the Catechism of the Catholic Church that there is hope for salvation for the unbaptized:

Spoiler CCC :

As regards children who have died without baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God, who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children, which caused him to say, 'Let the children come to me, do not hinder them' [Mark 10:14, cf. 1 Tim. 2:4], allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without baptism. All the more urgent is the Church's call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy baptism.

Right now the issue is still going on and Pope Benedict XVI has yet to publish a report on rejecting the hypothosis of limbus infantium.

Babies are innocent in my opinion and thus go to heaven.

But yet, dont you trust the mercy of God and Jesus's fondness and kindness towards children? Because no mortal man can judge weather an individual goes to heaven or hell.

I dont think dribbling some water on their head makes any difference on that at all. Unbaptized christians can still go to heaven - I never said baptism was a requirement for heaven, and the example of the thief on the cross an excellent example of that. Again, baptism is a symbolic choice of dedication to the ways of Christ - not a guarentee.

I do hope you understand as well as respect that some denominations (Especially the ones who identify themselves as capital "C" catholics) such as Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox tradition view Baptism as a Sacrament and a necessity for salvation, not a symbol.

You can be baptised and still end up in hell.

That is true if you fall out of God's Grace and in a state of mortal sin and die without confessing them.

Non-christians go to hell

You never ceace to make me laugh with Fundamentalist exclusion . Makes me glad that I am a Catholic who sees that regardless of one's faith that non-Christians (including Gandhi and the Dali Lama) would have a chance to go to heaven. Once again, who died and made you God? No mortal man has the capacity to judge who is going to heaven or hell. Its not my place to judge who is going to heaven or hell much like it is not your place to judge who is going to heaven or hell.

 

[Mauer]

You never ceace to make me laugh with Fundamentalist exclusion . Makes me glad that I am a Catholic who sees that regardless of one's faith that non-Christians (including Gandhi and the Dali Lama) would have a chance to go to heaven. Once again, who died and made you God? No mortal man has the capacity to judge who is going to heaven or hell. Its not my place to judge who is going to heaven or hell much like it is not your place to judge who is going to heaven or hell.

Not completely, but that partially contradicts right there. Also, it's easy to say "YOU JUDGER!!!" when that is clearly not the point. Based off of the very words in the bible, that is God's word, those who do not come to God through Christ will not enter in.

 

[GenMarshall]

Not completely, but that partially contradicts right there. Also, it's easy to say "YOU JUDGER!!!" when that is clearly not the point. Based off of the very words in the bible, that is God's word, those who do not come to God through Christ will not enter in.

I said that "They would have a chance", Did I specificly state that they are going to heaven or hell? No. I simply stated that I firmly believe that if they lived a good and holy life that they would have a chance to go to heaven. I did not judged anyone. If you dont believe me, look at these statements:

"Whoever seeks peace and the good of the community with a pure conscience, and keeps alive the desire for the transcendent, will be saved even if he lacks biblical faith" - Pope Benedict XVI

"Normally, “it will be in the sincere practice of what is good in their own religious traditions and by following the dictates of their own conscience that the members of other religions respond positively to God’s invitation and receive salvation in Jesus Christ, even while they do not recognize or acknowledge him as their Saviour" - Pope John Paul II

"Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience. Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life." - Pope Paul VI

All of these statements from the present pope to the past popes gave me a rough belief that even non-Christians would be able to have a chance for salvation.

 

[rysingsun]

small things like beileving in christ shouldnt matter

how is rejecting your creator a small matter in the eyes of your creator?