What's a Born Again Christian?

[Eran of Arcadia]

Well, as a Mormon, I will say I think all your baptisms are invalid . . .

And it is also, perhaps, accurate to say that Mormons believe that "all non-Christians are going to hell." Of course, we are using different definitions of "hell", "Christian", "going", and "non-", so make of that what you will.

 

[punkbass2000]

So, more expediently, "all are to hell"?

 

[mangxema]

A question to you Christians. You (obviously) take the Bible to be true, and can use what it says as an argument in a discussion. My question is, though, do non-Christians ever take these arguments seriously, seeing how non-Christians do not consider the Bible (the New Testament at least) to be true/important/the word of God?

Depends how reasonable it seems. I would naturally be skeptical though because...

...I keep in mind that there is a possiblility of translation errors as well as think outside the box and not have one's head crammed in the Bible.

I'm not really sold on the whole god thing. Maybe there isn't. But even if the Christian God does exist, and did the whole nine yards, and even if the Bible is meant to be taken as word-for-word literally true, it still can be ruined by a man's interpretation.

So if Jesus told you to jump off a bridge, you would jump off a bridge?

A veritable leap of faith!

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

So, more expediently, "all are to hell"?

"All are to", actually.

No, I mean, our concept of the afterlife is quite different from that of other Christians, as well as our view of who gets there, although not How.

 

[GenMarshall]

"All are to", actually.

No, I mean, our concept of the afterlife is quite different from that of other Christians, as well as our view of who gets there, although not How.

This is something I am going to have to ask in your thread .

 

[warpus]

Is God religiously intolerant? Yes. Do you think God thinks its ok that you are a hindu, but a nice guy? Nope. Think about it. God is very religiously exclusive. God is very much 'you are either with me, or against me' and if you are even just lukewarm about it, he will spit you out of his mouth. Be either hot or cold, but not lukewarm. Be either for him, or against him, but not wishy-washy.

Why would you want to worship a God like that?

Sending all Hindus to hell.. please.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

The real question, then, would be not "why would a loving God send all Hindus to hell" but "why would God create Hindus". I could see God making religion an absolute requirement, if he were more obvious about what is the truth.

 

[GenMarshall]

The real question, then, would be not "why would a loving God send all Hindus to hell" but "why would God create Hindus". I could see God making religion an absolute requirement, if he were more obvious about what is the truth.

That is what I have been wondering as well. Is why God created Hindus, Shintoists, Christians, and all of the religious faiths under the rainbow. I then take it into acount that there might be a possibility that all paths might lead to God in which God only gives us a piece of the puzzle in a form of Religion.

Mind you I have been thinking on this so I myself am not sure if I am correct on this one.

 

[mangxema]

That is what I have been wondering as well. Is why God created Hindus, Shintoists, Christians, and all of the religious faiths under the rainbow. I then take it into acount that there might be a possibility that all paths might lead to God in which God only gives us a piece of the puzzle in a form of Religion.

“Why do people have different religions?” I asked. “It seems like the best one would win, eventually, and we’d all believe the same thing.”
The old man paused and rocked. He tucked both hands inside his red plaid blanket.
“Imagine that a group of curious bees lands on the outside of a church window. Each bee gazes upon the interior through a different stained glass pane. To one bee, the church’s interior is all red. To another it is all yellow, and so on. The bees cannot experience the inside of the church directly; they can only see it. They can never touch the interior or smell it or interact with it in any way. If bees could talk they might argue over the color of the interior. Each bee would stick to his version, not capable of understanding that the other bees were looking through different pieces of stained glass. Nor would they understand the purpose of the church or how it got there or anything about it. The brain of a bee is not capable of such things.
“But these are curious bees. When they don’t understand something, they become unsettled and unhappy. In the long run the bees would have to choose between permanent curiosity—an uncomfortable mental state—and delusion. The bees don’t like those choices. They would prefer to know the true color of the church’s interior and its purpose, but bee brains are not designed for that level of understanding. They must choose from what is possible, either discomfort or self-deception. The bees that choose discomfort will be unpleasant to be around and they will be ostracized. The bees that choose self-deception will band together to reinforce their vision of a red-based interior or yellow-based interior and so on.”

 

[Turner]

Even if the pope told me to jump off a bridge, I would still refuse to jump.

And be right to do so. In Catholicism, suicide is darn near the worst sin you could commit. Sanctity of life and all that. Not only would CG be correct in refusing to jump, the pope would be wrong in urging him (or anyone else) to do so.

 

[warpus]

“Why do people have different religions?” I asked. “It seems like the best one would win, eventually, and we’d all believe the same thing.”
The old man paused and rocked. He tucked both hands inside his red plaid blanket.
“Imagine that a group of curious bees lands on the outside of a church window. Each bee gazes upon the interior through a different stained glass pane. To one bee, the church’s interior is all red. To another it is all yellow, and so on. The bees cannot experience the inside of the church directly; they can only see it. They can never touch the interior or smell it or interact with it in any way. If bees could talk they might argue over the color of the interior. Each bee would stick to his version, not capable of understanding
that the other bees were looking through different pieces of stained glass. Nor would they understand the purpose of the church or how it got there or anything about it. The brain of a bee is not capable of such things.
“But these are curious bees. When they don’t understand something, they become unsettled and unhappy. In the long run the bees would have to choose between permanent curiosity—an uncomfortable mental state—and delusion. The bees don’t like those choices. They would prefer to know the true color of the church’s interior and its purpose, but bee brains are not designed for that level of understanding. They must choose from what is possible, either discomfort or self-deception. The bees that choose discomfort will be unpleasant to be around and they will be ostracized. The bees that choose self-deception will band together to reinforce their vision of a red-based interior or yellow-based interior and so on.”

But in the end a group of enlightened bees realizes that it doesn't matter what is going on inside the church and what colour it is to live a happy life, so they decide to use logic and reason to make sense of their surroundings instead.

Eventually the bees invent a device capable of scanning through the glass to determine what colour stuff is and what the hell is going on inside. Certain bees complain that this data is not collected directly, so it can't be trusted. Other bees worship a candle. Some bees blow themselves up.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Since none of the bees are capable of opening a door, most had to either guess based on glass color or make inferences. Except those bees lucky enough to see the inside of the church when someone opened the door from the inside.

(How the metaphor might be extended by Mormons.)

 

[mangxema]

(How the metaphor might be extended by Mormons.)

Go ahead, extend away. It's not my metaphor anyway. It's from Scott Adams.

 

[MobBoss]

It would not make it right according to the bible, but it does not give me the right to call another person Christian or not that they are out of order.

Sure it does. I am not judging you, I am discussing the bible with you and teaching you. I have not called you a non-christian or anything like that, but merely stated if a christian does indeed believe that Jesus is the savior and what he says is true, then a christian should obey and/or consider the word of God the truth.

That may be your view of God. However I have a different view of God in that is quite benevolent, religiously tolerant, and religiously plural.

Again, God is a jealous God....he is not religiously tolerant. One merely has to read the bible to see proof of this over and over and over and over again. It is simply not debateable.

Jesus did came in to bring salvation for all. But dont forget, that God gave us free will to chose to accept Jesus or reject him. Personaly, I would not hold a person who rejects Jesus accountable for their actions.

Thats crazy. Personal responsibility and choice is key in christianity. There is no biblical scripture to back this up what-so-ever. If no one was responsible for what they did what would the point of repentance and redemption be?

God would most certanly not hold a person accountable for rejecting Jesus becaue God did gave us freewill to chose.

Totally and utterly false and not backed up anywhere in biblical scripture. Jesus himself said if you reject him, in turn his father will reject you.

If God wanted us to accept Jesus he would have not given us freewill.

Utter baloney. God doesnt force people to accept Jesus...that would be false love. God wants us to accept Jesus and he sent his only son to save us. Dude, you really, and I mean really, need to read some scripture on this.

I do read the Bible. However I keep in mind that there is a possiblility of translation errors as well as think outside the box and not have one's head crammed in the Bible.

If you read the bible tell us where its ok with God for us to deny Jesus. Hint: You wont find it. Having your head crammed into the bible is a good thing, especially for a christian. A deeper understanding of the bible is wisdom, plain and simple.

So if Jesus told you to jump off a bridge, you would jump off a bridge?

Of course I would. Wouldnt you? What christian wouldnt give his life for his lord and he truly believe? And if you wouldnt...then where is your faith that God would save you?

 

[MobBoss]

Why would you want to worship a God like that?

Sending all Hindus to hell.. please.

Who am I to question God? Its his rules...his playground. The reason I would want to worship a God like that is that he loves me beyond understanding and is always there for me regardless. He will never forsake me, never let me down. And, by living by his rules, my life has been blessed.

I have no complaints. Hindus are more than free to make the same choice as I did....or not.

 

[warpus]

Who am I to question God? Its his rules...his playground. The reason I would want to worship a God like that is that he loves me beyond understanding and is always there for me regardless. He will never forsake me, never let me down. And, by living by his rules, my life has been blessed.

I have no complaints. Hindus are more than free to make the same choice as I did....or not.

Still not sure how you could worship a jealous entity that sends billions of people into a pit of eternal suffering just for being born on the wrong continent.

According to your worldview, most of the people living in Asia are going to suffer forever. I'm not asian myself, but I find that to be unacceptable and a big sign that your initial assumptions must be severely messed up, if it leads you to conclusions like that.

 

[Turner]

Still not sure how you could worship a jealous entity that sends billions of people into a pit of eternal suffering just for being born on the wrong continent.

According to your worldview, most of the people living in Asia are going to suffer forever. I'm not asian myself, but I find that to be unacceptable and a big sign that your initial assumptions must be severely messed up.

Which is why I have a hard time with the "all loving" god. If god was so 'all loving', certainly he wouldn't a majority of the people on the planet through eternal suffering.

 

[MobBoss]

Still not sure how you could worship a jealous entity that sends billions of people into a pit of eternal suffering just for being born on the wrong continent.

Well, I guess thats why spreading the gospel is so important now eh? Anyway, they are not sent as a matter of where they are born, but as a matter of their choices in life. Nothing more, nothing less.

According to your worldview, most of the people living in Asia are going to suffer forever. I'm not asian myself, but I find that to be unacceptable and a big sign that your initial assumptions must be severely messed up, if it leads you to conclusions like that.

/shrug. Like I said, I didnt make the rules, but I do know how to read them. And there are way more christians in Asia than you think. Way more.

 

[GenMarshall]

Sure it does. I am not judging you, I am discussing the bible with you and teaching you.

However were both in different denominations, Not sure if your teachings would carry over into Roman Catholicism. Its like you giving me a program that is designed for a Mac and I am running on Windows.

Again, God is a jealous God....he is not religiously tolerant. One merely has to read the bible to see proof of this over and over and over and over again. It is simply not debateable.

I cannot accept the fact that God would hold someone ac****able just because of their own freewill. If God is a jealous God and is not religiously tolerant, why doesnt he control the human population to worship him only? I feel God did not gave us Freewill just for kicks.

Thats crazy. Personal responsibility and choice is key in christianity. There is no biblical scripture to back this up what-so-ever. If no one was responsible for what they did what would the point of repentance and redemption be?

So in your world view wrapped around a holy book. You are sesentialy saying that people in Asia and the Pacific Rim WHO HAS NEVER HEARD about Jesus are going to hell?! How could a benevonent God just cast them into the eternal pit of fire just because they were born in a different contenent.

Totally and utterly false and not backed up anywhere in biblical scripture. Jesus himself said if you reject him, in turn his father will reject you.

Oh thats a nice way to tell former Christians who become atheists or converted to another religion . So heaven is now an exclusive club only reserved to Christians where atheists, agnostics, Buddhists, Jewish, Zoroastrians, Muslims, Shintoists, Hindus, and other non-Christians automaticly get a one way ticked into hell? I am sorry but I dont agree to that statement nor do I accept that world view.

Utter baloney. God doesnt force people to accept Jesus...that would be false love. God wants us to accept Jesus and he sent his only son to save us. Dude, you really, and I mean really, need to read some scripture on this.

Then why is there referances, such as your self stated, full of fear tactics that "if you are in a wrong religion" or "you rejected Christ" that you get a one way ticket to hell. Heh, nice way of gaining converts. No wonder many people were upset with me when I preached about hell.

If you read the bible tell us where its ok with God for us to deny Jesus. Hint: You wont find it. Having your head crammed into the bible is a good thing, especially for a christian. A deeper understanding of the bible is wisdom, plain and simple.

So to you and by your logic ignorance is strength? I see it in my view that having one's head crammed in the Bible makes you blind to the world and stuck inside the box.

Of course I would. Wouldnt you? What christian wouldnt give his life for his lord and he truly believe? And if you wouldnt...then where is your faith that God would save you?

Now youre creaping me out. I personaly would not want to jump off a bridge just because Jesus said so. I want to be in a religion that respects and honors human life, not a suicide cult.

 

[CurtSibling]

Who am I to question God? Its his rules...his playground. The reason I would want to worship a God like that is that he loves me beyond understanding and is always there for me regardless. He will never forsake me, never let me down. And, by living by his rules, my life has been blessed.

I have no complaints. Hindus are more than free to make the same choice as I did....or not.

Heh!

You think millions of people are doomed...All without a shred of proof.
Save for some random letters, gospels and speculations in old scriptures...

Question:
Did it ever occur to you that someone might have written the user manual
in such a way that encouraged you to just dislike all the other religions?

????