Chandrasekhar
Determined
I've always liked the idea of a permanent summon for Dimensional II, a fast land unit with cargo space.
What's going on with Creation, Force and Dimensional mana?
- Thread starter Verily
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KingOfLands
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2006
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- 227
I endorse this idea, or something similar, but I'd question how useful that would be outside multiplayer. Granting that Air I is a pretty good example of a spell with limited application as well, that might not be enough of a problem to keep it out.
![[to_xp]Gekko](https://civfanatics-data.community.forum/avatars/m/74/74677.jpg?1475248346){kind=avatar}
[to_xp]Gekko
QCT junkie
trying to come up with something good for creation, force & dimensional:
dimensional is easy. Escape is lvl1. Banish should be lvl2. Teleport should be lvl 3 ( it would be awesome if it allowed to teleport to any tile you already revealed. it should not be caster only imho, but have a max number of units it can teleport to avoid being uber )
Force: I like FF's force spells. accelerate at lvl1 is great, gives much needed speed to siege engines, possibly even golems and undead/demons ( the ones that can't be hasted ) . magic missile allowing ranged attack at lvl2 is sweet. and force wall at lvl3 also, forbidding access to the caster's tile to units under lvl6 or something ( I'd like this to be castable everywhere, not only cities )
Creation: it could be nice to drop terraforming spells in here imho. spring at lvl1, bloom at lvl2, vitalize at lvl3.
Fair Winds renamed to Fair Waves, make it water1. give air1 good ol' whirlwind. and nature3 could be guardian vines, or "crushing vines" : ranged attack spell, damages all/many units on 1 tile only, poisones and immobilizes affected units.
dimensional is easy. Escape is lvl1. Banish should be lvl2. Teleport should be lvl 3 ( it would be awesome if it allowed to teleport to any tile you already revealed. it should not be caster only imho, but have a max number of units it can teleport to avoid being uber )
Force: I like FF's force spells. accelerate at lvl1 is great, gives much needed speed to siege engines, possibly even golems and undead/demons ( the ones that can't be hasted ) . magic missile allowing ranged attack at lvl2 is sweet. and force wall at lvl3 also, forbidding access to the caster's tile to units under lvl6 or something ( I'd like this to be castable everywhere, not only cities )
Creation: it could be nice to drop terraforming spells in here imho. spring at lvl1, bloom at lvl2, vitalize at lvl3.
Fair Winds renamed to Fair Waves, make it water1. give air1 good ol' whirlwind. and nature3 could be guardian vines, or "crushing vines" : ranged attack spell, damages all/many units on 1 tile only, poisones and immobilizes affected units.
Minor Annoyance
Deity
Well in that case I'm probably not going to bother. I don't know what's missing gameplay wise, it's just ODC wanting all the spell spheres from that chart to actually be in the game.
Pike the Hands
Chieftain
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2008
- Messages
- 83
The one big thing I can see a need for is some way to speed up nonliving units, or at the very least just siege units. As it is I never use siege, primarily because they slow everything else down too much. I don't know if a spell would be the best way to meet this need, though.
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
I don't think that siege unit should be made fast. I think that giving them ranged attacks is much better.
I liked the first FF implementation of Force better than the latest.
I just got to thinking, when I made Dragons act as Nukes but not be set to self destruct I found that they would move right to the attacked tiles if there were not other units defending. I'm thinking it may be possible to add a transport summon that acts as a non-exploding ICBM, letting it move right to any tile on the map (and causing the whole world to shake as the unit fall straight down to earth). This would however not be bad for diplomacy, and it might lead to normal Civ IV Global Warming. Of course, using Dimensional magic that can rip wholes in the fabric of space probably shouldn't make you very popular.
I liked the first FF implementation of Force better than the latest.
I just got to thinking, when I made Dragons act as Nukes but not be set to self destruct I found that they would move right to the attacked tiles if there were not other units defending. I'm thinking it may be possible to add a transport summon that acts as a non-exploding ICBM, letting it move right to any tile on the map (and causing the whole world to shake as the unit fall straight down to earth). This would however not be bad for diplomacy, and it might lead to normal Civ IV Global Warming. Of course, using Dimensional magic that can rip wholes in the fabric of space probably shouldn't make you very popular.
Keeper_GFA
Prince
Banish would still be useful against non-summoners. An enemy summon would disappear at the end of the turn but, if you could banish it now, then you could move in without fighting a pointless battle. And if it could be made to banish permanent summons as well, then it'd be even more useful.
Pike the Hands
Chieftain
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2008
- Messages
- 83
Magic can already bombard defenses and deal damage- basically do everything siege units do- at range. If siege units had ranged attacks but remained turtles I'd still never build them.
Minor Annoyance
Deity
I thought of having a creation spell turn a non-living unit into a living unit. Once all your catapults are living creatures you could put more spells on them.
I think it takes away quite a bit of the game's symmetry to have the other 3 magic spheres not represented. I've always been of the opinion that the individual civs' signature mana types need to play a greater role in the game (no coincidence that there's 21 civs) and right now Cassiel, Cardith Lorda, and the Sheaim are kind of getting shafted lore-wise by not having a type of magic to call their own. It makes me sad. 
And yes, I would like the game to balance above all else, and I believe that eliminating the whole "conjuration" path was one of the best decisions made by the developers yet. However, the magic system is still far from balanced as is. Summon Aurealis at level 3? Haste (some people disagree) at level 1? There are also numerous summons that are virtually identical except for their affinities, which rarely mean much.
I guess my point is that it's pretty hard for the game's magic system to be balanced, so why not add a few more spells? Right now the finished copy of the mod that I'm playing just doesn't seem quite as "finished" as I expected it to be. Not in terms of balance, but in terms of content.
And yes, I would like the game to balance above all else, and I believe that eliminating the whole "conjuration" path was one of the best decisions made by the developers yet. However, the magic system is still far from balanced as is. Summon Aurealis at level 3? Haste (some people disagree) at level 1? There are also numerous summons that are virtually identical except for their affinities, which rarely mean much.
I guess my point is that it's pretty hard for the game's magic system to be balanced, so why not add a few more spells? Right now the finished copy of the mod that I'm playing just doesn't seem quite as "finished" as I expected it to be. Not in terms of balance, but in terms of content.
Fafnir13
King
Dimension seems to be rather easy to do. Escape as the first and some random teleportations spells for the others. Level 3 being able to randomly teleport enemy units would be fun. 
Force? Um...that's a bit harder. Push enemy units around (with % chance of failrure/resistence). Great for getting them off that hill. Somethine that create areas that take more movement to get through would be good as level 2. Like how hills and forests take 2 and a forested hill takes 3, it would add, say, 2 additional. Plunk enough of these down (limited by number of mages with the sphere, as per skellies), and your hippus raiding worries are over. A good level 3 one would be something like a ward that prevents enemy units from entering the square. Resistable, of course, and with a chance of failure. Might fall under the same field as charm though.
Another thought for force would be some sort of destructive "shove" that decimates defenses. Maybe that would work better as a level one spell that removes enemy unit's fortified bonus. I'm not sure if something like that already exists or not.
Creation could be fun. Levenl 1: create hammers! Level 2: create money! Level 3: create food!
Okay, they would need to take a few turns to cast, and it might just break the game balance-wise. Just mass adepts and build anything you want in one turn!
Other possibilities:
Unit duplication: x turns for level, strength, et cetera.
Create random resource: Not adjacent to any others, takes x turns to cast with a chance to fail.
Permanent Summons: Allow summons to be permanent via having the level 2/3 spell. Adds a promotion to summoned units to remove death timers. Promotion used to track and limit total number of permanent summons.
Just throwing stuff to see if it sticks to the wall.
Force? Um...that's a bit harder. Push enemy units around (with % chance of failrure/resistence). Great for getting them off that hill. Somethine that create areas that take more movement to get through would be good as level 2. Like how hills and forests take 2 and a forested hill takes 3, it would add, say, 2 additional. Plunk enough of these down (limited by number of mages with the sphere, as per skellies), and your hippus raiding worries are over. A good level 3 one would be something like a ward that prevents enemy units from entering the square. Resistable, of course, and with a chance of failure. Might fall under the same field as charm though.
Another thought for force would be some sort of destructive "shove" that decimates defenses. Maybe that would work better as a level one spell that removes enemy unit's fortified bonus. I'm not sure if something like that already exists or not.
Creation could be fun. Levenl 1: create hammers! Level 2: create money! Level 3: create food!
Okay, they would need to take a few turns to cast, and it might just break the game balance-wise. Just mass adepts and build anything you want in one turn!
Other possibilities:
Unit duplication: x turns for level, strength, et cetera.
Create random resource: Not adjacent to any others, takes x turns to cast with a chance to fail.
Permanent Summons: Allow summons to be permanent via having the level 2/3 spell. Adds a promotion to summoned units to remove death timers. Promotion used to track and limit total number of permanent summons.
Just throwing stuff to see if it sticks to the wall.
Creation could be some alternative to normal workers, giving it spells wich either create tile improvements, or upgrade existing ones.
Just a few ideas:
Level 1: summon fort (creates a fort on the tile) - would be an more or less offensive spell
Level 2: Creationists Workshop - castable in cities, adds a building wich gives 1 hammer and 1 culture point (or something like that)
Level 3: Perfection - Upgrades the upgradable tile improvements by 1 step (comes quite late, but sometimes it's annoying that a builder changed some tile, someone pillaged it and you would have to wait some time, so that it auto-upgrades).
Force is a hard one, besides Magic Arrow i can't think on anything that sounds gameplay-wise good.
Some 'Force-Shield' might be something, but what should it do, while not being to strong or just another version of an existing spell?
Force Smash could be a spell that only damages the fortification modifier of a city, but then catapults would be 'weaker'...
The Dimension ideas sound good.
Just a few ideas:
Level 1: summon fort (creates a fort on the tile) - would be an more or less offensive spell
Level 2: Creationists Workshop - castable in cities, adds a building wich gives 1 hammer and 1 culture point (or something like that)
Level 3: Perfection - Upgrades the upgradable tile improvements by 1 step (comes quite late, but sometimes it's annoying that a builder changed some tile, someone pillaged it and you would have to wait some time, so that it auto-upgrades).
Force is a hard one, besides Magic Arrow i can't think on anything that sounds gameplay-wise good.
Some 'Force-Shield' might be something, but what should it do, while not being to strong or just another version of an existing spell?
Force Smash could be a spell that only damages the fortification modifier of a city, but then catapults would be 'weaker'...
The Dimension ideas sound good.
Fafnir13
King
Creation for improvements? Hmm...be nice if it could be used to upgrade cottages/forts to their next level. Be nice to finally have a way to counter the aftermath of a pillaging horde.
OzzyKP
Deity
[to_xp]Gekko;7648848 said:
Here is my stab at it (combining some ideas voiced earlier):
Dimensional
1 - Escape (sends caster back to capitol)
2 - Banish (40% chance to send enemy summons within 1 tile back to their capitol)
3 - Teleport (sends caster to any tile on the map (maybe other units too, I dunno))
Force
1 - Unlock (perhaps make some or all treasure chests & cages locked, and make Force I an Unlock or Force Open spell (could have scenario uses too))
2 - Magic Missile (summons 1-3 (random) missile units that are around the same strength as fireballs (maybe a bit more), but don't have collateral & can't reduce city walls, but you have the chance of getting more than one)
3 - Force Push (60% chance to move adjacent units back a square, and if it is not too much trouble have light units more likely to be pushed and heavy units less likely)
Creation
1 - Create Mine (creates a permanent summon (only one at a time, like skeletons) that has no movement and maybe only like 2 or 3 strength. Ideally it'd be invisible, but units would inadvertently walk over it and attack the unit, instead of just passing over it like hidden units)
2 -Summon Faithful Hound (summons a dog (or any other creature) that remains attached to the mage to guard him from attack. If mage is attacked the dog gets killed/suffers damage instead of the mage itself. Could just make it a promotion, or add a dog/wolf graphic to mages who have the spell cast. It'd be a great anti-assassin spell)
3 - Summon Swarm - Summons 7-10 (maybe more?) low strength units such as baby spiders, wolves or (if we wanted to create new units) things like rats, bats, etc that all start with Enraged.
Other ideas:
- Force I Alternate - Ground - Removes flying promotion from enemy units.
- We lack a good drain spell. Something to cause damage to an enemy unit and heal the caster should be added... somewhere. No idea on where.
- Creation I Alternate - Create Healing Potion - I think this is a good idea if it can be implemented.
- Dimensional/Force Alternate - Levitate - Gives flying promotion to units in stack for X turns
- Calm (removes enraged, crazed & burning blood promotion from friendly units. i could be wrong, but I don't think there is a way to do this currently, right? with how incredibly annoying enraged is, I think it is very needed to have a spell to remove it)
...actually, I think Create Healing Salve might just be too strong for a LV1 spell. There IS a reason that insta-heal is hard to come by.
Calm is more of a spirit spell.
Drain spell is good on... entropy, perhaps? I don't really know.
Ground is far too specific. Unlock too, it is just an unnecessary gimmick that complicates the game.
As I already elaborated, Banish is more or less pointless, as most summons will perish regardless. Also, Escape actually is more powerful than Teleport.
Your creation spells, particularly the mine one (which would be awesome as a dwarf unique machanic, w/ blasting powder and appropiate strength and perhps a remote control... oh, yes) don't strike me as particularily creation flavored.
Calm is more of a spirit spell.
Drain spell is good on... entropy, perhaps? I don't really know.
Ground is far too specific. Unlock too, it is just an unnecessary gimmick that complicates the game.
As I already elaborated, Banish is more or less pointless, as most summons will perish regardless. Also, Escape actually is more powerful than Teleport.
Your creation spells, particularly the mine one (which would be awesome as a dwarf unique machanic, w/ blasting powder and appropiate strength and perhps a remote control... oh, yes) don't strike me as particularily creation flavored.
I thought up a few Creation spells:
Creation
Creation mana: +5% chance of forest spread per resource (cumulative bonus)
+1% chance of a food resource randomly spawning inside borders. With a 50 turn 'cool down'.So if a resource spawns another will not spawn for at least 50 turns(to prevent food resources being spammed) (non cumulative bonus)
Level 1: Seeds of life: (name may conflict with life mana I guess)
Casting creates 'saplings' in the tile. 1-3% chance per turn that saplings will turn into 'new forest'. Used for creating forests from nothing. The tile would either have to be empty for casting or make casting destroy any improvements. Improvements possibly could be buildable upon sapling tiles (and therefore forests could eventually grow around them) but I'm unsure of this balance wise.
Level 2: Create: Spell must be cast on a raw mana node. Creates a weighted-random resource from the mana node. It would have a higher percent chance of creating a valuable resource such as mithril or iron, and smaller chances of creating something like cotton or silk. And very rarely a tree of life could be created with all the same benefits as Yggdrasil (or even some other new unique feature only obtainable by this method). Would be useful if you don't need certain mana nodes. And it Could also be used offensively. You would give your enemy a resource but you would burn off his mana nodes!
Level 3: Ascend to Heaven (Idea 1) Takes 15 turns to cast. Must be cast in a city. The caster leaves behind his corporeal form to ascend to the vault of Creation. Upon ascent caster's body becomes a building; Pillar of Creation. (the caster dies)
Pillar of Creation: The pillar emanates the power of creation. It inspires and influences the creativity of all the citizens in the city from artisans to scholars. The effect in game is:
+3
/
+100%
+25%
+25%
+25%
+2 (great artist)
A spell for those seeking a cultural victory. The building is quite powerful but I think Cultural victory methods need a boost like this. I have another idea for Creation 3 I'll post later.
Creation
Creation mana: +5% chance of forest spread per resource (cumulative bonus)
+1% chance of a food resource randomly spawning inside borders. With a 50 turn 'cool down'.So if a resource spawns another will not spawn for at least 50 turns(to prevent food resources being spammed) (non cumulative bonus)
Level 1: Seeds of life: (name may conflict with life mana I guess)
Casting creates 'saplings' in the tile. 1-3% chance per turn that saplings will turn into 'new forest'. Used for creating forests from nothing. The tile would either have to be empty for casting or make casting destroy any improvements. Improvements possibly could be buildable upon sapling tiles (and therefore forests could eventually grow around them) but I'm unsure of this balance wise.
Level 2: Create: Spell must be cast on a raw mana node. Creates a weighted-random resource from the mana node. It would have a higher percent chance of creating a valuable resource such as mithril or iron, and smaller chances of creating something like cotton or silk. And very rarely a tree of life could be created with all the same benefits as Yggdrasil (or even some other new unique feature only obtainable by this method). Would be useful if you don't need certain mana nodes. And it Could also be used offensively. You would give your enemy a resource but you would burn off his mana nodes!
Level 3: Ascend to Heaven (Idea 1) Takes 15 turns to cast. Must be cast in a city. The caster leaves behind his corporeal form to ascend to the vault of Creation. Upon ascent caster's body becomes a building; Pillar of Creation. (the caster dies)
Pillar of Creation: The pillar emanates the power of creation. It inspires and influences the creativity of all the citizens in the city from artisans to scholars. The effect in game is:
+3
/+100%
+25%
+25%
+25%
+2
(great artist)A spell for those seeking a cultural victory. The building is quite powerful but I think Cultural victory methods need a boost like this. I have another idea for Creation 3 I'll post later.
SwampCow
Warlord
I like it!
OzzyKP
Deity
Ah, I didn't realize it was a full heal, I thought it just healed a bit.
I agree. I didn't assign it to a specific sphere, just thought it'd be an interesting addition. Though I'm unsure of this, does dispel magic handle enraged, etc?
Me either.
A lot of level I spells are fairly specific. Hell terrain is honestly an unnecessary gimmick that complicates the game, but it exists and so does a level I spell to undo it.
I have absolutely no idea why Escape is more powerful than Teleport, I'm interested to hear your explanation for that. But how about throwing in
Well they create new things... i.e. creation. We already have nature for natural stuff, so in that vein seem to duplicate that theme. Unless we go for a more general creation theme instead of nature creation there will never be a need for the sphere.
Ooo, I've got an interesting dimensional 2.
Steal resource.
When your caster is on a resource, cast this spell and that resource is sent to your empire. Any player that was receiving the benefits of that resource no longer do. As long as you stay on the resource, you get the bonus. If you're killed or move along it reverts back to normal.
Useful if you were shafted during mapgen, or if want to deny an enemy access to the resource.
Steal resource.
When your caster is on a resource, cast this spell and that resource is sent to your empire. Any player that was receiving the benefits of that resource no longer do. As long as you stay on the resource, you get the bonus. If you're killed or move along it reverts back to normal.
Useful if you were shafted during mapgen, or if want to deny an enemy access to the resource.
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