What's so bad about consensual polygamy?

[Sharwood]

Huh? It's a good song.

If you're referring to the fact that the lyrics aren't exatly accurate, I didn't write the damn things, if I could have been bothered to write out the song, I'd have at least got them right. I have no idea why the guy stopped writing them partway through.

 

[zxcvbnm]

Bit of advice, Sharwood: NEVER get a job in the music industry, you would single-handedly destroy it with your lyrics.

Relationship-wise, I'm happy as a clam right now. Found a woman who's conservative and atheist at the same time, that sort of woman is very difficult to find.

Congratulations! So you have a relationship with 14% of the World's conservative atheist women?

 

[Sharwood]

I can do better than him anyway, I got me an agnostic.

 

[Stolen Rutters]

After reading through this thread, I may have to change my mind. The only polygamous examples we have ARE these "wackjob child-rapist nut cases" that are shown on yahoo news (or TV for the people who still watch it). The fact that these are the only examples I have of the practice forms my original reasoning to the opposition of polygamy in general.

I didn't even realize that the OP was making a "what-if" scenario, that these people could have a safer consentual polygamy between adults, if we would only decriminalize the practice. They might not even need to force these early teenagers into marriages if they were allowed to do so later without a near-universal social stigma attached to it.

If my options were polygamous marriage versus being alone for the rest of my life, I'd take the marriage, even as second husband. With all the changes to our society, particularly the large decrease in people being married, maybe there is something to decriminalizing things that used to be horribly dangerous or destabilizing to societies "back in the day".

I change my opinion from "no legalization: we need to control these wackos" to "maybe things are changing... We need to further criminalize what we don't like about polygamy, i.e. the child rape and the unfair exclusive polygyny practices, have a discussion whether we want to decriminalize the multiple marriage partner aspect." I'm still not for it, since I don't think it is ready to come out of the closet so to speak (plus, I'm sick of all the taxes I'm paying... I know supporting this will ultimately cost me. It's the way things work around here, unfortunately. )

 

[holy king]

Congratulations! So you have a relationship with 14% of the World's conservative atheist women?

so exactly how many of them are there?

 

[IglooDame]

We all agree that people who want to practice polygamy are few and far between. It makes sense, then, that these few people would clump together, both geographically and socially. The same thing happens with gay people, immigrants, swingers, fetishists, and all that kind of 2nd standard deviation stuff -- there's a gay community, and immigrant community, a swingers community, a fetish community.......

The difference with polygamy is that, for purely practical reasons, people will run out of wives and husbands. It makes sense, then, that they'll go after people of younger and younger age. Only in a situation where men have several wives and women simultaneously have several husbands can it practically "work". In which case there'd be a lot of incest, for reasons I've pointed out previously.

Everyone keeps saying that there's no reason that, in principle, polygamous relationships can't be healthy. But there are reasons... And if people would stop the typical CFC tactic of picking the low hanging fruit maybe they'd see them.

I've encountered multiple polygamous marriages. They're not called that per se (probably for legal reasons), but I know of two 1-man 2-woman 'marriages' and one 1-woman 3-man 'marriage'. Yes, it's within the "fetish community". But while the lifestyle fetish (BDSM, really) community is relatively small, there's far more complaint that there aren't enough female dommes for the available supply of male submissives than there is that "the poly male Doms have dried up the supply of female subs" which is what the current argument would infer to be the case. Which is why while I'm aware of the "Lost Boy" argument against legalized polygamy, I don't think it would be a factor across a population of 300 million people where polygamy would be an option (and one not often taken, given current social mores), as opposed to the few-thousand cult/sect memberships where polygyny is the only option.

Oh, and the poly folks appear to be doing adequately well, if you overlook the occasional beatings and whippings (which, I should note in case some of you don't know where I'm coming from, are entirely 100% consensual and quite a lot of fun).

 

[Mise]

@ID: I won't pretend I understand what type of person enters into a polygamous relationship, but I think there's a difference between a polygamous relationship in the "fetish community", involving conscious subs and doms that have very defined roles, and a polygamous relationship outside of the fetish community, involving, well, normal folk who just want to have more than one spouse.

Either way though, I'm not really looking at it from a "should it be legal" POV. I think that the abuse that people suffer at the hands of certain sects and cults is evidence enough that people who enter into polygamous relationships should be fully protected by the law -- without the protection of the law, abused partners really have no legal rights.

No, I'm more looking at it from a practical POV: Can it work? If you're saying that, IRL, the practical issues I mentioned aren't all that common, then I'd want to know what measures should be taken to ensure that legalising polygamy won't also result in more nasty cults that abuse its members and their children.

 

[zxcvbnm]

so exactly how many of them are there?

100%/14%=7

so that answers your question

 

[holy king]

100%/14%=7

so that answers your question

i'm just wondering how that 0,14 percent of a woman looks like...

 

[Arwon]

I've encountered multiple polygamous marriages. They're not called that per se (probably for legal reasons), but I know of two 1-man 2-woman 'marriages' and one 1-woman 3-man 'marriage'. Yes, it's within the "fetish community". But while the lifestyle fetish (BDSM, really) community is relatively small, there's far more complaint that there aren't enough female dommes for the available supply of male submissives than there is that "the poly male Doms have dried up the supply of female subs" which is what the current argument would infer to be the case. Which is why while I'm aware of the "Lost Boy" argument against legalized polygamy, I don't think it would be a factor across a population of 300 million people where polygamy would be an option (and one not often taken, given current social mores), as opposed to the few-thousand cult/sect memberships where polygyny is the only option.

Oh, and the poly folks appear to be doing adequately well, if you overlook the occasional beatings and whippings (which, I should note in case some of you don't know where I'm coming from, are entirely 100% consensual and quite a lot of fun).

I had completely forgotten about the poly folks as an interested party, which is probably just my ignorance and prejudice... thanks for that post. I suppose I honestly hadn't considered them as "polygamous" in the same sense as heirarchical groupthink cultist whackjobs. Is there any great clamouring for legal recognition and contracts and so forth among them?

I suppose if we're going to say having a polygamous marriage arrangement shouldn't be criminalised we have to find other proxy laws with which to combat cults instead. Shouldn't be too difficult really.

 

[BasketCase]

If you're thinking I got cheated on--nope. Never happened.

Random off-topic post: is the above actually true, or did I make that up?

 

[BasketCase]

Congratulations! So you have a relationship with 14% of the World's conservative atheist women?

Fourteen percent?? Be serious, geez.

Five, six percent tops.

 

[Berzerker]

sorry Skad, the 2nd line didn't make sense but a well placed comma helps clear it up some

BC, if hurt feelings is a crime we'd all be taking turns as jailers and inmates

Let's get rid of old people, the way the Eskimos did. That would solve Social Security.

Gee, before SS people in this country just took care of them until they died. Thank God government came along to destroy such a terrible tradition.

 

[Tenochtitlan]

If we allow men to have polygamous relationships, women will want them too. That's why it's bad.

Women already have polygamous 'relationships'. I've seen movies about it

 

[IglooDame]

@ID: I won't pretend I understand what type of person enters into a polygamous relationship, but I think there's a difference between a polygamous relationship in the "fetish community", involving conscious subs and doms that have very defined roles, and a polygamous relationship outside of the fetish community, involving, well, normal folk who just want to have more than one spouse.

I'd think that the cults everyone talks about are effectively closer to the "defined roles" relationships than to *grin* normal polygamous folks.

Either way though, I'm not really looking at it from a "should it be legal" POV. I think that the abuse that people suffer at the hands of certain sects and cults is evidence enough that people who enter into polygamous relationships should be fully protected by the law -- without the protection of the law, abused partners really have no legal rights.

No, I'm more looking at it from a practical POV: Can it work? If you're saying that, IRL, the practical issues I mentioned aren't all that common, then I'd want to know what measures should be taken to ensure that legalising polygamy won't also result in more nasty cults that abuse its members and their children.

How about domestic violence laws, such as currently are employed when (off the top of my head) same-sex partners are involved, and obviously not married?

Anyway, are the FLDS and other cults having members arrested for practicing polygamy? I'm not exactly following the adventures of Warren Jeffs and his merry men with a microscope, so I might have missed some news reports about it, but my sense has been that they jump on them for statutory rape and similar crimes, not for polygamy per se.

I had completely forgotten about the poly folks as an interested party, which is probably just my ignorance and prejudice... thanks for that post. I suppose I honestly hadn't considered them as "polygamous" in the same sense as heirarchical groupthink cultist whackjobs. Is there any great clamouring for legal recognition and contracts and so forth among them?

Not really - given that there's still trouble getting states to differentiate assault from consensual infliction of pain, legal recognition of poly 'marriages' is seen as a battle needing to be fought farther down the road I think. Besides, they tend to draw up their own contracts (legally unenforceable anyway) regarding 'consensual slavery', so legally unenforceable contracts regarding polygamous arrangements aren't exactly a stretch.

I suppose if we're going to say having a polygamous marriage arrangement shouldn't be criminalised we have to find other proxy laws with which to combat cults instead. Shouldn't be too difficult really.

I though the laws regarding statutory rape were proving reasonably adequate - though perhaps some Texas AGs would disagree at the moment.