whats the oldest existing nation?

[Vietcong]

civil wars only count if thears a complet change in goverment.

like is china the same nation after the 1911 revolution?

 

[flyingchicken]

Your definition is more applicable to a "state" than a "nation."

 

[r_rolo1]

civil wars only count if thears a complet change in goverment.

like is china the same nation after the 1911 revolution?

And how much complete is complete? USA after their civil war was a pretty diferent country de facto ( if not de jure ), because of the enforcing of a more federal structure.

About China 1911 revolution ... seeing it with almost century of diference, I'm not so sure if it had changed so much. Still a corrupt governement of the literatti and a pretty miserable people.....

 

[REDY]

I have believed that China.

 

[Traitorfish]

If you're talking in terms of a group of people, I think Greece is worth considering. Even though it took until the War of Independece for an actual Greek nation to form, the whole concept of an identifiable, defined Hellenic culture dates back to ancient Greece. The way that this cultural increasingly took precedence over tribal distinctions (Dorians, Ionians, etc.) seems, to me, to indicate a proto-nationalistic concept of "Greece".

 

[ConanKND]

Maybe the thread title refers to uninterrupted government system? Kinda like the French Republic or the United States of America?

 

[Traitorfish]

Maybe the thread title refers to uninterrupted government system? Kinda like the French Republic or the United States of America?

Technical point- the French Republic is just under 50 years old. Of course, that's the 5th Republic, the First Republic was established after the Revolution in 1796. But considering that since that time France has gone through five republics and two empires*, that's hardly uninterrupted government...
Edit: *Not to mention the Vichy regime.

 

[RalofTyr]

The Martian Republic of Mars.

 

[citedon]

How about Russia? It has existed as an independent country since Ivan IV in 1538. The communist revolution and its fall were simply changes in government. I think it would be hard to find any Russian today who does not believe that his country is the same one that has existed for almost 500 years.

Also San Marino is little more than a city. Russia is a country.

 

[Sharwood]

San Marino is a country, regardless of its size.

 

[raketooy]

What about Sweden and Denmark (although Germany pwned the latter for a while in WWII)? They have been around for long and maintained independence.

 

[Yui108]

For continuing non occupation and government, U.S. must be up there. Sweden is an interesting point too.

 

[scy12]

If you're talking in terms of a group of people, I think Greece is worth considering. Even though it took until the War of Independece for an actual Greek nation to form, the whole concept of an identifiable, defined Hellenic culture dates back to ancient Greece. The way that this cultural increasingly took precedence over tribal distinctions (Dorians, Ionians, etc.) seems, to me, to indicate a proto-nationalistic concept of "Greece".

Well second place is nice but why don't you think that China would be first in this regard?

 

[Traitorfish]

Well second place is nice but why don't you think that China would be first in this regard?

Possibly, but it's important to remember that prior to the Qin dynasty China was a set of independent kingdoms. True, they shared a fair bit of culture, but that was more because of the influence of the Zhou dynasty- which ruled a relatively small area- than because of any one national identity. It's comparable to the fact that Western Europe shares a significant cultural ancestor in Rome, but that does not equate to a single national identity. "China" only emerged after the unification by the Qin, and only became commonplace during the Han period (one of the reasons for the primary ethnic group in China being known as the "Han").
By the time Qin Shi Huang became emperor, the idea of a single Hellenic national identity had already already existed for over 200 years. For example, at the Battle of Platea, the Athenians cited loyalty to the "Greek people"- who they declared themselves to be bound to by language, religion and culture, as well as by blood- as a major reason for fighting. Of course, this event was followed by the Pelopensian wars, the perfect augment of the lack of a united national identity in Classical Greece, so, clearly, it's a highly debatable point.

 

[scy12]

Possibly, but it's important to remember that prior to the Qin dynasty China was a set of independent kingdoms. True, they shared a fair bit of culture, but that was more because of the influence of the Zhou dynasty- which ruled a relatively small area- than because of any one national identity. It's comparable to the fact that Western Europe shares a significant cultural ancestor in Rome, but that does not equate to a single national identity. "China" only emerged after the unification by the Qin, and only became commonplace during the Han period (one of the reasons for the primary ethnic group in China being known as the "Han").
By the time Qin Shi Huang became emperor, the idea of a single Hellenic national identity had already already existed for over 200 years. For example, at the Battle of Platea, the Athenians cited loyalty to the "Greek people"- who they declared themselves to be bound to by language, religion and culture, as well as by blood- as a major reason for fighting. Of course, this event was followed by the Pelopensian wars, the perfect augment of the lack of a united national identity in Classical Greece, so, clearly, it's a highly debatable point.

Possibly, but it's important to remember that prior to the Qin dynasty China was a set of independent kingdoms. True, they shared a fair bit of culture, but that was more because of the influence of the Zhou dynasty- which ruled a relatively small area- than because of any one national identity. It's comparable to the fact that Western Europe shares a significant cultural ancestor in Rome, but that does not equate to a single national identity. "China" only emerged after the unification by the Qin, and only became commonplace during the Han period (one of the reasons for the primary ethnic group in China being known as the "Han").
By the time Qin Shi Huang became emperor,

Well i was quite ignorant of China's history really. I was aware that there where different Kingdoms but i thought they shared the same cultural heritage. It seems that the Han period is the period that saw the establishment of what would be the primary Chinese culture.

to be bound to by language, religion and culture, as well as by blood- as a major reason for fighting. Of course, this event was followed by the Pelopensian wars, the perfect augment of the lack of a united national identity in Classical Greece, so, clearly, it's a highly debatable point.

Not really. Study of the The Peloponesian wars and any other period of the history of ancient Greece only concludes any claims regarding united national identity. In Thucydides's dialogs Both sides use it as politics that Greeks that allied against Persians shouldn't attack other Greeks. In their speeches they make distinctions between other Greek cities and barbarians cities. But each different city was a city state on it's own. So the Civil war proves that a united national identity was not a big reason enough to not allow city states to attack other Greek city states . And it couldn't as other Greek city states where the best competition for other Greeks that they should eliminate if they wanted their city to become greater than the rest.

Regarding the Greeks , the Mycenaean civilization (1500 BC) was a Pre-Greek or Greek civilization though they didn't name them selfs as Greek they had a united National and cultural identity. I do not know whether they should be counted or not. Homer does say Yes .

 

[Lord Chambers]

A similar topic is discussed here: China has 5000 years of history. The US 250.

 

[Brighteye]

China has 50 years, the US 235 or so, the UK 320. I don't know when the Japanese emperors were replaced with the current parliament.

 

[Sharwood]

China has 50 years, the US 235 or so, the UK 320. I don't know when the Japanese emperors were replaced with the current parliament.

The PRC has a history of 59 years. China, on the other hand, has been around a loooong time.

 

[Brighteye]

But that's what the question is asking for. The length of China as a culture isn't what he wants.

 

[Sharwood]

Vietcong asked what the world's oldest nation was. Under his criteria, which are ridiculous, your numbers are correct. But since the answer to this question, under his criteria, was settled a while ago (San Marino), I don't understand why anybody's still posting here.