What's with all the hate?

[Vael]

That's from the United States only.

So you think that in the rest of the world PC games do so much better to not only sell evenly with console games, but to make up for how much further behind they are in the US? In Japan almost the ENTIRE market is console games... almost no PC games are sold there. And that's a huge market. PC games do pretty well in Europe, but so do console games. PC games certainly don't sell many times better there than console games. There's just no evidence that points to PC games selling near as well as console games. Other than a small blurb in a magazine, which is biased anyways... what's the name again? There's a reason why everyone is always claiming the PC games industry is "dying."

 

[DanQ]

Why are so many people down on Civ Revolutions? It's a different game meant to expand the appeal of Civ to a different crowd.

A number of possible, even probable, answers to your question have been raised in this thread already so I will not rehash any of them (specifically, anyway). Personally, I think it comes down to something as with almost anything else in life: a fear of the unknown.

That is to say, Civ developed natively on and for consoles is an unknown to the public and only becoming known in recent months to its developers even.

 

[cassembler]

Agree w/ above.

Anyone who's a Simcity fan might know about what's happening with Simcity Societies: a similar "branch" off of the franchise tree. While most hardcore fans were appalled by the "simplification/ elimination of game concepts," I personally find the game to be quite satisfactory. In fact, when going back to SC4, 3000, and 2000, laying pipes and planning police and fire radii is kind of boring and tedious. So why not just dump it? That being said, many fun concepts (city ordinances, taxes, economic conditions, etc) are just _gone_.

Same thing with Arena to Daggerfall to Morrowind to Oblivion: "simplification/ elimination" consistently led to, for me, a more streamlined experience (after a touch of UI modding, of course) Sometimes a good thing gets canned (Morrowind is arguably a more lush environment), but that's just how the cookie crumbles.

Again, I think we all know this isn't Civ5, but I suspect there'll be a few "simplifications/ eliminations" of concepts that many will prefer.

[PS- Civ 1 is still the best, for the record]

 

[T.A JONES]

Nothin wrong with console Tekken is wicked fun playin with a group of buds.

ITs this game that is a real shame. If they wanted to expand the appeal of Civ to a different crowd they could have made more alteration in historic realism to release civ in the classroom thus further educate not degenerate its name. They could have improved kids mind not weakened them

IN school I played a serious version of simcity (pc) I liked it and then bought the console version for Super Nes. SAme thing could have happend here. THe kid would have fallen back to civ4 on PC as the kide fun version compared to lisenced schoool civ. THe harcore fans would have taken it in as awesome and an improvement to the series thus promoting fan loyalty, not like this seperation fueled from spirilin down format.


They failed when they ignored the potential as a tool to be sold to school and hereby improving the integrity to the name and hence sales to home use to. They instead said we dumb it down to make a buck. They failed this seriies but who saw it coming when some faceless corp digested this classic game manufatureer?

 

[Sub]

Nothin wrong with console Tekken is wicked fun playin with a group of buds.

ITs this game that is a real shame. If they wanted to expand the appeal of Civ to a different crowd they could have made more alteration in historic realism to release civ in the classroom thus further educate not degenerate its name. They could have improved kids mind not weakened them

IN school I played a serious version of simcity (pc) I liked it and then bought the console version for Super Nes. SAme thing could have happend here. THe kid would have fallen back to civ4 on PC as the kide fun version compared to lisenced schoool civ. THe harcore fans would have taken it in as awesome and an improvement to the series thus promoting fan loyalty, not like this seperation fueled from spirilin down format.


They failed when they ignored the potential as a tool to be sold to school and hereby improving the integrity to the name and hence sales to home use to. They instead said we dumb it down to make a buck. They failed this seriies but who saw it coming when some faceless corp digested this classic game manufatureer?

If Civ was availible in the classroom, I'd never have gotten any work done.

 

[T.A JONES]

If Civ was availible in the classroom, I'd never have gotten any work done.

Ive seen two teachers from USA post in the forums sayin they used civ3 as the learning module

Then this happended "History Canada" Civ in school Nation wide scale

All this was done using a 2004 peice of software . They could have used less resources then they poured into Rev to turn a far greater profit instead. Why they would dwarf the G8 county's (Canada)+Breakaway Games(maker of Civ3 Conquests) joint project. Imagine improved realism/faster, better performace on wide range of computers thanks to learning off the mistakes made from civ4.

Each Country's special learning mod would focus on thier history through a set of scenarios and focused random map mods that use all the tribes/cultures that made up that nation . Also having a more broad world perspective available for world history would be included.

IMPORTANT!! : All new flexablity to custum graphics using more distict cultural flavours, Faster pedia in easy to read links and printable tect, Most crucial is the additon of more details for integrity of complex learning by realistic simulation. (even a 50% more options added to the old civ3 editer would do it if these guys could put toghter a classroom worthy project before).
Thay could have revamped n' expanded the civ3 format editer, screw PYTHON. THis way teachers not programmers could refine a certin lesson to thier wishes. Heck even have it linked to laptops in the class, low spec based on improved civ3 2d, would mean more junker computers could run this type of deeper civ3 setup (yet still more graphicly pleasing for candy junkies

I could go on but just look at the postive response using straight jacket civ3format. This is hardle flexable enough to provide worth while lessons. Yet its being done today as speak . Not by only a few thousand like some might think. Taketwo sold 100000 copys for this project!!!
(read on as teachers clamour for more copies after the intial hundred thou and pre distributed are gobbled up)

Now Think what they could do if they had a source code nevermind a overhauled product . Schools are a massive market with a chance to trickle in more sales from intrested students and even teachers. This is the only reputable game that ever had a chance to made this market work work since simcity turned a tidy profit(Board of Ed gave more then the average console game could hope for back then).

AFter you hear all this potential to improve minds and make a ton of money doing it INstead you realize they choose to mock the kids and give em dumbed down arcade garbage they can rot with instead of doing their homework

As relayed by Marea Olafson, a Saskatchewan history teacher, member of the Saskatchewan Council of Social Sciences and the first teacher to introduce HistoriCanada to her students:

OK, so I have Mark (names have been changed to protect the innocent), a grade 9 student playing the game. Here are some comments that he has made to make me laugh and love this game:

“I was making peace with everyone and twice I was attacked!”

My question to him was who he was playing as. His answer: a native tribe.

Then he was asking me what the Great Peace was.

The first night he played for a couple of hours and then got up early to play it before school.

He said that "it is a game of strategy and it really makes you think…I’m loving it!!!!"

He has other students wanting to play the game and he is going to share as well

Thanks again - I am really excited to use this with my second semester class of grade 12s come the end of January.

 

[T.A JONES]

The first night he played for a couple of hours and then got up early to play it before school.

This sounds like my grade 7 class . We would fight to get in class early an play some educatinal game like Carmen Sandiago or Sim city. Lunch time use was another hot commidty durin winter in Northern Canada. The schools libray also had copies we could get on but the class competion was feirce cuz high scores were kept and of course this was of biggest importance.

Holy Crap These fools blew it big time!. Now more teachers/Parents will see thier kids playin Civ on the console and figure it to be another mind rot videogame, thus blowin off any support for future collaberation with massive Gov Education contracts . Just look how much they made on Civ3 through Canada's board of Ed.
I wonder how long it will take Rev to battle throught the haters and convince more then the 110 000 'private custumers', the 'Educational Civ' mangaged to sell using one single swipe!.
Gov tenders are brought in unpromtedexcept in the Nations Senate Taketwo turns a easy buck without huge ad expenses..
In fact, Canda paid for their advertising in the form of newly established creds in the feirce educational sector. This was develped with a weaker, less flexable, less attractive design!. Still the kids didn't mind. They were so starving for interactive lessons they loved the limited civ3 format, as you see when siftin through tons of post giving thanks

So TakeY\Two was in great shape to capilize on other education projects using better design suited to be sold around the world with various age groups . Heck they could have invested the money normaly spent on ads to carve out more details or add more historic scenarios to capture a postion as leading supplier in this luctrative market.
IT was possable! The Civ brand had worked its way into position of being tailered or improved(in my mind overall ) to suit the educational market. So why rather did Taketwo use a brand they freshly bought, degrade its posture in the eyes of its core market, ruin its expansion into the most promising and complimenting areas, then sell the dumbed down or 'striped' version to an already crowded and more action geared console end. Please anyone!! Is this not a f^&&**@ joke? !!

... Dam counting all the rich countries that were prospective clients and all sales the company could not have hoped to garner in similar volumes with otherwise saggy Civ Rev prodution, It seems they failed shareholders so badly it frightning. Nevermind the familar market they could have reaped praise and driven more sales from at this time. Who knows, mybe one or two strategy fans outside the network of class distribution would haved to forked out for the finnaly PLAYABLE WITHOUT LAG xpience? Hmmm hard to say.

Did some American officials not want to improve their kids education and after seeing Cananda involvment, choose to rip apart the most respectable and proven learning franchise in PC gaming just to match whats happening in their schools today, A complete dumbed down Civilization? Hey isn't Bono the big shareholder here? Hmm sounds about right then . A conspiracy theory thats worth looking into thats for sure! lol

 

[T.A JONES]

Necro: Don't anyone have nothin to say bout this?.(NOt the bump the posts) I thought it made perfect sence . Rip at it at the very least

 

[caketastydelish]

I started wondering the same thing: 'til i took a quick scan around the forums and noticed that it's more or less the same punks-- Xavier Von Erck, Catharsis, anonyjjang... --who go around and post crap like "this is CIV for the mentally challenged" or "I would chop off my right hand before I play this".

Go into the other Revo chats in the Civ IV forums and you find a more... diverse set of h8rs. Probably the same idiots who have been spamming the Civ IV forums about how Civ III is better.

But my curiousity about both groups-- the Civ III lovers and the Civ Revo h8rs-- are two quesitons:

1) Don't you like multiplayer? Cause until Civ IV, MP was plain ugly, and I would look forward to Revo solely because it won't be on gamespy!

2) Why do you fear the future? If you're such luddites, shouldn't you just stay away from computers? Why do you trust the "internets", this shady "series of tubes"?

I personally find it ironic that anyone would bash Civ IV, saying III has more strategy. This couldn't be farther from the truth. In Civ III, the game was simply a land grab. Whoever gets the most cities wins! In Civ IV, that is not always the case. Also, people need to stop bashing Civ Rev until it actually comes up, and they play it for themselves!

 

[T.A JONES]

ISn't the whole land grab thing in the early days of man kinda imporantant though?. EAch turn in the game at that point reps about 50 years so ya you should be focused on grabin a bit free realestate.

I guess you hate that kinda famous game risk for the early land grab? Thing is many more like risk. CIv4 is more the 'Game of LIfe' with lots of cute popup 3d features to play around and look at

Hey anyway USA did this disgraceful land grab tactic . Same with Russia and CHina. They sit pritty today. HUh? Ya but Civ4 and ten city civs all the way..lol

 

[Jerrymander]

ISn't the whole land grab thing in the early days of man kinda imporantant though?. EAch turn in the game at that point reps about 50 years so ya you should be focused on grabin a bit free realestate.

Yes, it is very important, but not as important as it was in Civ3.

I guess you hate that kinda famous game risk for the early land grab? Thing is many more like risk. CIv4 is more the 'Game of LIfe' with lots of cute popup 3d features to play around and look at

Risk is nowhere near as complex as Civ3 or Civ4. You cannot compare the two the way you are comparing them.

Hey anyway USA did this disgraceful land grab tactic . Same with Russia and CHina. They sit pritty today. HUh? Ya but Civ4 and ten city civs all the way..lol

Civ is a game, real life is not. Russia is a, frankly, poor excuse for a nation right now, suffering a population decline and a crumbled economy. China is not truly any better off - but it could be if it moved away from communism.
Some could argue America does not 'sit pritty' [sic] today, either.

 

[MasterofDisasta]

I think a lot of people are overlooking the best part of Civ Rev. Its coming out on a handheld! A Civ game you can take with you wherever you go. That Rocks!

And its not even going to replace the old Civ games. If you like the old ones kep playing them. I'm certainly going to. They're still going to make Civ 5 for the computer. Civ Rev isn't replacing Civ 5 its just another bonus game we're getting.

 

[Swein Forkbeard]

"Let's take the greatest PC game of all time and put training wheels on it because we at Firaxis think all console idiots are dumb who can't handle the real experience!"

Dude, Civ4 is far from the greatest PC game of all time. At Gamerankings it's #11, and that's not even counting old games like StarCraft and X-COM. Have some sense.

For example, take PC Zone's Top 10 PC Games of all time, which were the results of a 2006 poll.

1. Deus Ex
2. Half-Life 2
3. Civilization IV
4. The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind
5. Half-Life
6. Rome: Total War
7. System Shock 2
8. DOOM
9. Battlefield 2
10. The Secret of Monkey Island

Granted, these guys should even be crucified for forgetting about games like StarCraft.

 

[Swein Forkbeard]

Those who claim this is for a new audience and that Civ fans need not buy it are right. Those that say it won't affect Civ fans are probably wrong. Like it or not (and I don't) there is far more money in console games than PC games. Games for consoles can be fun (I do some gaming on the PS3, though I primarily use it as a Blue-ray player), but the games tend to be different than PC games--faster, more twitch based, less strategy, less thinking, more interested in rewarding the player than in challenging him or her. Aside from the fact that more effort gets placed on developing console games (resulting in fewer PC games), these concepts spill over into the PC games that do get made. A good example is Oblivion. Its predecessor, Morrowind, was a great RPG designed for the PC that was also ported to XBox. Oblivion, though a fun game to play, was a step back for PC RPG fans. In direct contrast to Morrowwind, it was developed primarily for XBox 360 and ported to the PC, which showed in its clunky PC UI. And the gameplay was far more twitch based than traditional PC RPGs. Similarly, WoW, though on the PC, ruined MMORGs by dumbing down EQ to appeal to the console crowd. Financially, it is understandable what Firaxis is doing. And I cannot guarantee that there will not be a worthy Civ 5--I sure hope there is. But I don't think anyone can really guarantee that Firaxis will spend the money for that project when it can turn a much bigger profit by producing dumbed down games.

This is extremely wrong. First of all the best console games are filled with diabolical puzzles and cringy bosses. Just play a Mario or Zelda or Metroid game and you'll see what I'm talking about. And then don't forget about the seriousness in more mature games like Halo. And then play a God of War or Splinter Cell or Resident Evil game and you'll see not just action everywhere, but also you have to use your brain to avoid yourself getting killed and defeat the enemies and bosses. Consoles are where the future is. Previously I always got frustrated playing Civilization IV because I had to deal with llllllllllllllooooooonnnnnnnnnngggggg loading times plus a huge slowdown in the modern era. At least in Zelda and Metroid games I know when I've accomplished something and I can feel happy about it, especially after I've been stuck in this one area for a while. And with Civilization it pretty much took me two hours just to get maybe 10 turns done in the modern era, whereas in Super Mario Galaxy I could always get something accomplished 15 minutes.

Sure this maybe proving your case, but console games are more fun, and that's what games are for. I mean, could you imagine a Mario platformer on the PC?

Also, Sid said that this is the game he's been dying to make. That signifies that the Civilization series, despite the ESRB always giving it and E or E10+, has gotten to geared towards adults with a lot of time to kill. That has been the Civilization series' main problem, and Civ4 did away with it maybe 50%, and CivRev will do away with it 100%.

 

[caketastydelish]

ISn't the whole land grab thing in the early days of man kinda imporantant though?. EAch turn in the game at that point reps about 50 years so ya you should be focused on grabin a bit free realestate.

I guess you hate that kinda famous game risk for the early land grab? Thing is many more like risk. CIv4 is more the 'Game of LIfe' with lots of cute popup 3d features to play around and look at

Hey anyway USA did this disgraceful land grab tactic . Same with Russia and CHina. They sit pritty today. HUh? Ya but Civ4 and ten city civs all the way..lol

If land is all that matters, Canada would be a more important country than the United States. The truth is, at least half the countries in little Europe are as our more important than Canada. -and all of the European countries together are not as big as just Canada! If population is all the matters, why aren't China and India superpowers? If landmass is all that matters, like I already said before, Canada. Also, Russia.

Even though the Persian empire was MUCH larger than the greek empire, the Greek empire managed to keep themselves from getting invaded.

The chinese and Japanese have been at it for years. In terms of landmass and population, China should be able to just kill Japan anytime they want. Yet they can't. But in Civ III's book, its all about landgrabs and perhaps, population.

In Civ IV, the game is not just a landgrab and such. Much more strategic elements are in the game.

 

[Schuesseled]

Landgrabbing isn't important, not in real-life or in civ. In civ 4 they made this clear by the fact that you can ruin your economy by grabbing too much territory, of course if you do it well you can be big in space and economic power.

In real-life, i could name at least two empires that started off really small, but managed to invade and conquer large amount of the world through scientific knowledge.

 

[Civfan333]

Same thing with Arena to Daggerfall to Morrowind to Oblivion: "simplification/ elimination" consistently led to, for me, a more streamlined experience (after a touch of UI modding, of course) Sometimes a good thing gets canned (Morrowind is arguably a more lush environment), but that's just how the cookie crumbles.

Well, Morrowind is actually MORE detailed than the previous Elder Scrolls Games....

 

[T.A JONES]

I won't get into debate. ITs all good the civ thing.
I think some like fast games some like big games. THe land lottery at the start of civ3 is always a toss up always fresh even always risky as you can be caught pants down in xpanse phase by a nation squeezed out of the sweets(thus switched to military early)

In land lottery phase, Time is represented taking place in milleniums so don't see a realism problem here/ Tribes go on the move and culture binds. It works good with no magic walls to seperate intruders.
Another civ's settler should be able to walk past your tribes tents (culture lines) to set up digs in land your tryin to pass off as your distingished national boundry in sparely populated land around 2000bc.
Cv3 you fight early on for whats yours not apease with the diplo modifiers to shut the door on rival expansion (personal pref)
Civ3 makes for some drawn out action stratagy needin alliances smart logistics, blah blah.. (or how is it not a strategy game compared to civ4)

Civ4 makes for some feirce arcade action. With 10 city empires a civ can be taken out quick( using right rock pap sciss cobo). Thats intense I guess. Civ Rev looks to expand on this using quick n nimble arcade style(civ4 was bogged down slow arcade style for most rigs)

 

[DJ Bonebraker]

I largely aggree with T.A. Jones, and as proof that the Apocolyspe is nigh, Bill 3000 as well.

One of my favorite parts about Civ (and most of the other games I love, like AoK, AoE III, etc) is the ability to, once I'm bored with pwning it aeveral dozen times, mod it to my liking... Something that is very limited with consoles (although they are starting to add that facet in there, such as with Soul Calibur III's awesome "Create a Soul" mode).

Like I said before, if people were to just think of Civ Rev as "Civilization Fantasy Tactics" instead of Civ Proper, they wouldn't get so bent out of shape....

 

[T.A JONES]

Civ is a game, real life is not. Russia is a, frankly, poor excuse for a nation right now, suffering a population decline and a crumbled economy.

Don't believe everything CNN tells ya. post patriot act has slighty fewer independent news outlets. Stay awake or You got one hella surprise coming..
Russia is so bold to hire us(canucks) to work on their projects, that is underground "bases"

And you country seems a lil nervous according to the congressional reports


From: Congressional Record

Yamantau Mountain​

(wiki entry(empty))

Sense of Congress.--In light of the findings in subsection (a), it is the sense of Congress that--

(1) the Russian government should provide to the United States a written explanation on the principal and secondary purposes of the Yamantau Mountain project, specifically identifying the intended end user and explaining the heavy investment in that project;

(2) the Russian government should allow a United States delegation, including officials of the executive branch, Members of Congress, and United States experts on underground facilities, to have full access to the Yamantau Mountain project to inspect the facility and all rail-served buildings in the southern and northern settlements located near Yamantau; and

(3) the Russian government should direct senior officials responsible for the Yamantau Mountain project to explain to such a United States delegation the purpose and operational concept of all completed and planned underground facilities at Yamantau Mountain in sufficient detail (including through the use of drawings and diagrams) to support a high-confidence judgment by the United States delegation that the design is consistent with the official explanations

This base has been compared to a giant anthill with over 100000 workers going steady for over decade underground now.
Why build such crazy underground crap and why is this the 1st you all have heard of this! I think Russia's abiltys are grossly under-exadurated.

Wait till they gets their hands around the petro exchange and sqeeze with the rupie or Euro. Try looking into Irans' Oil bourse..Russia's buddy, they banned the doller from oil sales. WHo tried that last?..think Iraq mid2000 before the fall.

SO How can Iran stand up to you/us guys doing the same tactic that got saddam killed and his Euro's for oil exchange reverted back to USA doller when tanks stole his rigs?? ..try with Russian support. and hows the buck doing these days while the 3rd largest supply on tap bans USA bucks on the barrel?
YOu never even heard of an Iran OIl bourse til now. CNN don't mention it much but IT will get worse with Russia and its plentyful reserves becoming more powerful by the day.
If its going dowb to petro warfare, Russia has been manouvering and they are set to win. (A lot of it is 'location location'..I mean without barging in rapin n killin an upsetin the neighbours, type 'location location' lol)

Read OPEC and Russian influence in letting other currencies trade on the petro exchange