When do we strike?

[Whomp]

I still think there's still another option...
MIA is willing to make peace. Could we have a 40 turn peace so we can catch up technologically with them? All we need is MI, LB's and buchets to get back with them. This will happen with our combined research with Donut.


In the meantime, we can pound on their research partner, indirectly hurting MIA's research, it would be a total surprise, TNT is weak to us, they have undefended coastal cities and are likely focused on getting back into the game with infrastructure/settler builds so no new units.
All the while Donut and us are researching away.

Too much?

 

[Tubby Rower]

I think that since the admins treat treaties as unbreakable, we should sign a peace treaty with MIA to the effect of this

1. Cultural borders should be respected and not encroached upon for 40 turns
2. KISS and MIA under no circumstances can declare war on each other for 40 turns
3. No future or past treaties can override this treaty.

If we get this signed by them, then we could be free to go harass TNT and have some GA turns while continue building forces for the eventual fight with MIA.

 

[Whomp]

I really think we should consider this option seriously. They're willing.

 

[grahamiam]

i'm fine with it.

 

[Whomp]

Hops and MI seem to be too much to handle right now IMO. We have no defense against jungle, hill mountain hops/MI combos. I'm afraid we'd lose our jungle lux cities if they came straight at us.
We can become the fur traders from the north with TNT's empty city west of our fur town. Any ETA on when we can put out 3-4 boats of GS'?

On a sidenote.. The other part of this is I'm a lot more confident in us lackeys kicking Donsig's butt than Chamnix' butt if our big players aren't playing the save.
.

 

[Kickbooti]

I am not opossed. But I have to ask again, how big a chunk are we going to take of the other Island? Can we 'manage' it efficiently? Will we be giving the Nuts unrestricted growth potential without any enemy on the island?

A headlong rush into MIA looks unappealing right now (gurilla warefare sounds fun, but headlong is going to get bloody). But I don't like the idea of taking away a counterbalance that can keep the Nuts looking over their shoulder.

Whoes to say that once TNT is gone, weakening MIA which would be isolated, that as we grow in power of the 40 turns that Nuts wouldn't foster an attack on us sicne we would be their major competition.

I'm just paranoid.

 

[Whomp]

Since I'm suggesting this I'll try to address some of your concerns.

I am not opossed. But I have to ask again, how big a chunk are we going to take of the other Island? Can we 'manage' it efficiently? Will we be giving the Nuts unrestricted growth potential without any enemy on the island?

Since both teams are at peace unrestricted growth for Nuts is good for our alliance from a tech standpoint and indirectly very bad for MIA's tech situation. We get a GA and Nuts is able to strengthen their research capabilites (for us as well) in the process. Ultimately, a strong alliance benefit to both Nuts and us. Since we are so far away from each other any war with them is remote due to the agreement we're working on through the MA's and wouldn't happen till sometime in the industrial age.

A headlong rush into MIA looks unappealing right now (gurilla warefare sounds fun, but headlong is going to get bloody). But I don't like the idea of taking away a counterbalance that can keep the Nuts looking over their shoulder.

I don't want sound pessimistic here but attacking MIA within the next 30 ish turns is suicide until we can get "4" attack units.
They are in a much better position to take cities from us than us them. I know we talk about pillaging and skirmishing but 2 hops/2 MI attacking Effing is a losing proposition for sure.

Whoes to say that once TNT is gone, weakening MIA which would be isolated, that as we grow in power of the 40 turns that Nuts wouldn't foster an attack on us sicne we would be their major competition.

I'm assuming our agreement with Donut is signed. So they have a peace agreement with us through the end of MA.

Two peace agreements. One short term for 40 turns (MIA) and a 2nd long term through the MA (Donut)

 

[Kickbooti]

Since I'm suggesting this I'll try to address some of your concerns.
Since both teams are at peace unrestricted growth for Nuts is good for our alliance from a tech standpoint and indirectly very bad for MIA's tech situation. We get a GA and Nuts is able to strengthen their research capabilites (for us as well) in the process. Ultimately, a strong alliance benefit to both Nuts and us. Since we are so far away from each other any war with them is remote due to the agreement we're working on through the MA's and wouldn't happen till sometime in the industrial age.

You're logic is compelling, and I'm inclined to agree.

However, don't forget that the research pace will be set by the slowest partner, if we lag they will slow up and bank their gold, just as we would if the positions are reversed.

Also, the governance of our overseas holdings is still a question for me. Should we switch our FP to the Great Library and then make the FP overseas?

Otherwise, I'm in favor of Whomp's proposal. But let's hurry and put some deep hurting on TNT - I want a GA!!!

 

[Whomp]

With 5 luxs online and monarchy as a government option I don't think we will be dragging research down too much. TNT without Carpetbomb is already dragging down MIA. TNT can't outproduce us. Boats, units, settlers, anything...

As well, since we're gifting Donut into the next age so we can request they research some of the more expensive techs.

The Glib is not necessary since we are already in the MA's IMO. The FP will have significantly greater long term impact.

 

[Tubby Rower]

FYI... TNT will have pikes now. Albeit more expensive hops, they are still the same stats.

 

[Whomp]

FYI... TNT will have pikes now. Albeit more expensive hops, they are still the same stats.

A couple things make a difference though. We will have Pikes, MI, LB's (some of these) by the time they can mount a counteroffensive. In the meantime we can wreak havoc, pillaging and destroying everything in sight with our speed. IMO it's the boats that will make the difference here. We can produce them and have a reason to make them and they don't (at least now). This is the true skirmishing war our GS need. Hit, run, jump on a boat and repeat.

Think about it...if we lost a size 8 coastal city like they did how many pikes could they make? As well, they're behind the eight ball on growth, anarchy turns etc. They will not be focused on military builds and the furs not being guarded also means no furs for MIA.

It's a calculated risk I'd be willing to take over any actions with MIA where the odds seemed stacked against us.

 

[Bede]

As always, POTKiss your logic is compelling and backed by facts.Four boatloads of GS and pikes/longbows would deliver some hurt to both parties.

 

[Tubby Rower]

I have switched Jesterton to galley duty. Also some of the GS are moving westward. I've also started the curraph moving to Notthefullshilling for an upgrade and should reach it just as the harbor is complete.

 

[Crakie]

So all of a sudden the team has changed it's mind??? I for one am still not convinced, although Whomp did have some points. The best reason I can see to attack TNT is to trigger our GA. In the end we would still be doing the Nutter's job and in the long run clear their continent for them.

 

[Tubby Rower]

I was mainly wanting to go after TNT for the ivory. Now that we will be getting free ivory from MIA, I'm not so sure that it's necessary. It would be nice to trigger a GA.

I am scared that we'll be fighting a losing battle against MIA. 50% survival rate is not good IMO.

TNT could be a nice little distraction for us. I think that we would benefit from a small war and also weaken TNT to a point that they wouldn't be able to threaten seriously again.

Peace in this game won't last too long. 4 teams going for space just won't happen. I would rather a war with us involved be on our terms instead of an attack that we hadn't seen coming.

 

[Whomp]

The ivory we receive from MIA is not permanent so getting it is still important.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

I second the TNT thing, esp. with furs and ivory at stake and a FP ready really soon.

 

[Tubby Rower]

Why do we need furs? We have two sources and all taking theirs will do is deny only TNT from furs. There is furs at the southern choke between MIA & D'nut

 

[scoutsout]

It's probably a little late for me to respond tho this thread... (was I even on the team then?)

I voted "no war" because neither "the holy day of Meleet" nor "Last Saturday" were listed in the poll.

 

[Rik Meleet]

It's probably a little late for me to respond tho this thread... (was I even on the team then?)

I voted "no war" because neither "the holy day of Meleet" nor "Last Saturday" were listed in the poll.

Yes it is ...