When to repair, upgrade or buy and other questions

Bamspeedy

CheeseBob
Joined
Dec 18, 2001
Messages
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Location
Amish Country, Wisconsin, USA
Me and my wife are having a disagreement about our soon to be 'old' computer.

1. How long should a computer last (running 12+ hours a day, 7 days a week)?

This one lasted 4 years (with no hardware upgrades) and still does basic tasks, but I can't play Sims 3 anymore than 5 minutes without the blue screen of death (BSOD). It also does this when running other games or if I have more than 6 internet windows or tabs open (sometimes less if it's a higher intense web page that for example has a video on it). But since it still does what she needs it for (the internet for job searches, dictionary, etc.) she didn't see much of a need for a newer computer.

She says her computers at her (former) job lasted 10+ years (office work), so surely the better computer we have at home should last longer than 4 years. I say playing games on it puts more stress on it than just running spreadsheet and word processor programs all day.

I do want to run Oblivion, Witcher and Sims 3 which the old computer did for years before the computer problems (if the game settings weren't all the way up), but I don't need the best computers to run the newest games and I never play multiplayer games.

Sure, her office computers would have problems, but nothing a system restore wouldn't fix. I did that on this computer and would get the BSOD during the restore so obviously I'm still going to have problems. The BSOD would have different messages about which file caused the problem, but I think it was just because of what program was running at the time when the memory was exceeded. Hardware Diagnotic tests all come back just fine except when I do a Memory Diagnostic and then halfway through the test the computer just shuts off with no messages about what caused the computer shutdown.

2. What's the typical hourly rate for having a computer fixed (I know I would also have to add the cost of the parts). I say after 4 years it's time for an upgrade anyways, not just because of hardware failings from being old but also compatibility issues to newer programs we may want to use or install. I can buy a $500 computer and it will still be an upgrade to the $800 computer I bought 4 years ago. If I spend a couple hundred $ fixing the old one, I just wonder how long before a different part fails and I have to take it back in?

3. I can install as many games as I want and it won't hurt the computer, right?

She thinks I had too many games installed and that is why the computer is failing. I say that as long as I have the disk space for it then it won't hurt the computer (now obviously if I tried to play more than 1 game at a time I would probably be asking for problems)

4. Would trying to play a game on a computer that does not meet the game's recommended specs possibly damage the computer?

I say no, it won't damage the computer, the game just won't work (or lag too much to be playable). She wanted me to find some sort of protection program or something that would protect the computer if I tried to run too powerful of a game. If the computer can run it (just barely run it or otherwise) then it's ok to play the game or does that decrease the computer's lifetime since it's using more resources (if so could it decrease it significantly, or just slightly)?

5. How often should a computer be cleaned for dust?

I insist this is why our computer is shot, she wanted to blame the games. And I admit this is a failure on our part.....We never cleaned it and it was stored on the floor that has carpeting. About a year and a half ago the computer would make much more noise and then 6 months ago the noise stopped. My theory is the loud noise was the cooling fan struggling to still turn. When the noise stopped it was because the fan just couldn't run anymore at all. This allowed the computer to overheat, damaging it. This is the only explanation my wife agreed with and allowed me to get a new computer.

6. Newer computers still come with a hookup to the old style monitors, right? Or do we need to buy a flat screen monitor?

I want a new monitor, she says since the old one still works so we can still use that until we move into a bigger place where we can run both computers and then we would have a reason for having two monitors.
 
Me and my wife are having a disagreement about our soon to be 'old' computer.

1. How long should a computer last (running 12+ hours a day, 7 days a week)?

4 years would sound about right for a laptop, but not long enough for a desktop. A desktop can last a very long time if it's upgraded and maintained properly.

2. What's the typical hourly rate for having a computer fixed (I know I would also have to add the cost of the parts).

There's all sorts of variables here with regards to how much it would cost, but in my opinion it's expensive enough that it's worth learning how to fix yourself. Professional techs are going to try to squeeze all kinds of money out of you. I would avoid going to places like Geek squad at Best Buy because they overcharge. You can probably find their rates online, as an example. An independent place might charge less, I'm not sure. Don't you have a nephew or something that can do this kind of stuff for free? :p

3. I can install as many games as I want and it won't hurt the computer, right?

The less free space a hard drive has the slower it becomes. I would try to space things out.

4. Would trying to play a game on a computer that does not meet the game's recommended specs possibly damage the computer?

No, it will most likely just shut down suddenly.

5. How often should a computer be cleaned for dust?

Depends on environment and amount of use. For a computer used 12 hours a day in a moderately clean room, it'd put it at around 6 months.
6. Newer computers still come with a hookup to the old style monitors, right? Or do we need to buy a flat screen monitor?

It will more than likely come with an adaptor for older monitor connections. If not, you can always get one yourself.
 
1. You put a lot of stuff into this question, so I'll just answer with some various points:

A system restore isn't going to fix anything other than software problems, which are avoidable in the first place, and not particularly material to the question "how long should a computer last"?

How long a random computer will last without any maintenance (ie. replacing broken parts) is a tough answer - it doesn't really matter if anything fails within the warranty period (2 years) - I might ballpark 50/50 odds of something failing within the following 2 years.

2. Around $50/hr is roughly the going rate.

3. Yes.

4. No.

5. Depends how dusty your house is. I blow mine out every couple months.

6. Probably not, but adapters are like $2. Do yourself a favour and get rid of any CRT monitors you have, you can get a 24" LCD for $170 or less which is going to be way better than your CRT, will take up less room, will generate less heat and will make far more of a difference in usability than any other upgrade you could make to your computer.

The less free space a hard drive has the slower it becomes. I would try to space things out.

Not in a way that matters to the average user. Anything where drive speed particularly matters should be going on an SSD anyway.
 
Do yourself a favour and get rid of any CRT monitors you have, you can get a 24" LCD for $170 or less which is going to be way better than your CRT, will take up less room, will generate less heat and will make far more of a difference in usability than any other upgrade you could make to your computer.

I better use that 'generate less heat' argument now while it's still hot outside, and not try to argue that in the wintertime....

We currently have only a 16 inch monitor. The table is kind of low and within reach of a toddler so the little one reaching up to touch the monitor is a worry (we also had the problem of the toddler pushing the power button on the computer.)
 
I better use that 'generate less heat' argument now while it's still hot outside, and not try to argue that in the wintertime....

We currently have only a 16 inch monitor. The table is kind of low and within reach of a toddler so the little one reaching up to touch the monitor is a worry (we also had the problem of the toddler pushing the power button on the computer.)
A TFT needs less power ... that argument will do throughout the year ... ;)
I want a new monitor, she says since the old one still works so we can still use that until we move into a bigger place where we can run both computers and then we would have a reason for having two monitors.
This is not a really good reason. Old CRT's can cause fire because of the high voltage within, they can implode due to the vacuum inside, they are heavier and are therefore more likely to hurt your toddler if he or she manages to pull it off the table.

I really second Zelig's idea of getting a TFT. Check the maximum desktop resolution of your graphics card (in case you do not want to upgrade it) so you will be able to run it in native resolution for best quality. 24'' might be a bit much ... :) 17'' or 19'' will do.

To some of the other points you mention:

Blue Screens with games:
1. Windows got corrupted. Backup your data, download the latest hardware drivers from the manufactures web sites and consider a fresh new install to get rid of any software problems. There are free software tools to checkout the hardware components you use.

2. Overheating may cause some components to throttle down performance or make the drivers get instable. Plug it off and get a brush and a vacuum cleaner to free the coolers (CPU, GFX card, power supply, housing fan) from dust. Quite simple.

Hardware Diagnotic tests all come back just fine except when I do a Memory Diagnostic and then halfway through the test the computer just shuts off with no messages about what caused the computer shutdown.
If overheating can be excluded, you might replace the memory by yourself. Checkout the memory you have and get the fastest type that's supported by your system as replacement. Memory has gotten quite cheap.

EDIT: Sometimes contacts loose their conductivity due to corrosion. It does not need to be rusty to impose a higher than usual resistance. It's always worth a try to remove and reinsert memory bars and internal wire connections between mainboard and drives.

She thinks I had too many games installed and that is why the computer is failing.
I think your wife may be right. Personally, I try not to spend more than 50% of the disk space because of speed.

Many games installed often also mean many other games uninstalled. The installs and uninstalls and occasional reinstalls may corrupt Windows that in turn leads to malfunction. Once the crashes start happing, the situation gets worse.

BTW, here's an idea to speed up computers that works really well: Get a 2nd hard drive, connect it to another IDE or SATA channel than the main drive. Now configure windows to put the swap file on the 2nd disk. Windows now can read and write from and to the main drive and swap memory in parallel.

4. Would trying to play a game on a computer that does not meet the game's recommended specs possibly damage the computer?
Overheating can put stress on the components. As said before, overheating on a desktop system will likely be a problem of bad cooling due to dust. Otherwise, reduce the settings and/or - something like the protection system your wife suggested - install a power saving tool that reduces the CPU voltage ("undervolt"). Just as an example, I use Notebook Hardware Control to keep my notebook cool when playing games. It reduces voltage without sacrificing Ghz. :cool:

So I think for under 100 bucks you can improve your machine without the need of a tech and bring it back to a working state. When you decide for a new computer you may convert the old one to a file server backing up your data on a regular basis. Well-spent money.
 
Cheapest 17" runs around $100, and cheapest 24" around $160, with other sizes falling inbetween.... I just don't see how any amount of money between $100 and $160 is worth compromising on the size of monitor.
lest there is a lack of space or a gfx card in an older computer that is incapable of full hd.

Price vs. size is not the only trade-off - glare vs- non-glare surfaces is an important dicision you have to make.
 
lest there is a lack of space or a gfx card in an older computer that is incapable of full hd.

Price vs. size is not the only trade-off - glare vs- non-glare surfaces is an important dicision you have to make.

I don't think there's any remotely modern computer that can't run 1920x1200, I've been using resolutions in that range, or higher, for the past decade.

A 24" LCD is going to take less physical space than 16" CRT.

Not sure what you mean about glare vs non-glare, I'm pretty sure the (lowest) prices I quoted were for matte screens.
 
I don't think there's any remotely modern computer that can't run 1920x1200, I've been using resolutions in that range, or higher, for the past decade. ...
Frankly, I don't know what's the problem here. :lol: Bamspeedy has to decide by himself and I think we agree that any TFT will be better for various reasons than any CRT. :badcomp:
 
If you are now having problems running games that you could previously run on the same machine, it sounds like you have a software problem, not a hardware problem. A 4 year old computer is fine if you want to play 4 year old games.

If you have an install left on your windows license, buy a new hard drive with a fresh install of windows and use it just for your games. Boot up to it by selecting it in the BIOS. It will feel like you have a new computer. Maybe buy some more RAM to give it a little more speediness. I had a host of weird, seemingly impossible to diagnose hangups/annoying slowdowns on my ancient XP install on my five or six year old old PC (cannot remember how old it is exactly, it is an old E6600 machine I built myself); I installed Windows 7 on a new hard drive last year on it and breathed new life into the old machine. It is still working flawlessly as a second office/internet computer in our apartment and after throwing in a $60 video card it can even play old games (Bioshock, Civ4) like a champ.
 
In theory a CPU can last forever, but in practice computers are considered "obsolete" in institutions at about the 3 year mark. I'd probably try Illram's advice first since your computer might just need some performance tweaks in OS settings, or a little hardware boost such as little more ram or an extra hard drive. Also defragging, cleaning up of the Registry, etc....
 
Me and my wife are having a disagreement about our soon to be 'old' computer.

1. How long should a computer last (running 12+ hours a day, 7 days a week)?

This one lasted 4 years (with no hardware upgrades) and still does basic tasks, but I can't play Sims 3 anymore than 5 minutes without the blue screen of death (BSOD). It also does this when running other games or if I have more than 6 internet windows or tabs open (sometimes less if it's a higher intense web page that for example has a video on it). But since it still does what she needs it for (the internet for job searches, dictionary, etc.) she didn't see much of a need for a newer computer.

She says her computers at her (former) job lasted 10+ years (office work), so surely the better computer we have at home should last longer than 4 years. I say playing games on it puts more stress on it than just running spreadsheet and word processor programs all day.

I do want to run Oblivion, Witcher and Sims 3 which the old computer did for years before the computer problems (if the game settings weren't all the way up), but I don't need the best computers to run the newest games and I never play multiplayer games.

Sure, her office computers would have problems, but nothing a system restore wouldn't fix. I did that on this computer and would get the BSOD during the restore so obviously I'm still going to have problems. The BSOD would have different messages about which file caused the problem, but I think it was just because of what program was running at the time when the memory was exceeded. Hardware Diagnotic tests all come back just fine except when I do a Memory Diagnostic and then halfway through the test the computer just shuts off with no messages about what caused the computer shutdown.

It depends... I'd say 4 years is about average in terms of being sufficient for the tasks it's usually given. 10 years is definitely above average. You're right that games do put more stress on it than running Office.

It sounds like the memory might be bad - that could cause BSODs. Or it could be corrupted files... kind of hard to say.

Question 2 - I don't know the answer.

3. I can install as many games as I want and it won't hurt the computer, right?

She thinks I had too many games installed and that is why the computer is failing. I say that as long as I have the disk space for it then it won't hurt the computer (now obviously if I tried to play more than 1 game at a time I would probably be asking for problems)

As long as you aren't out of space (or very close to it), it shouldn't cause any problems. The worst case would be if a bunch of the games had updaters that ran at startup, then you'd have slower boot times. You are right that playing more than one at a time isn't a great idea in terms of stability... but even then, rebooting should fix any abnormalities. I've done it before, and occasionally it wasn't the greatest idea in the world.

4. Would trying to play a game on a computer that does not meet the game's recommended specs possibly damage the computer?

I'd say no, it won't damage the computer, the game just won't work (or lag too much to be playable). She wanted me to find some sort of protection program or something that would protect the computer if I tried to run too powerful of a game. If the computer can run it (just barely run it or otherwise) then it's ok to play the game or does that decrease the computer's lifetime since it's using more resources (if so could it decrease it significantly, or just slightly)?

It shouldn't. It'll either not run, run slowly, or possibly run but with some visual issues. If it's running slowly, it probably is maxing out some component, but even then that shouldn't have a noticeable effect on longevity, unless perhaps you're always playing that game, or temperatures are already too high to begin with.

5. How often should a computer be cleaned for dust?

I insist this is why our computer is shot, she wanted to blame the games. And I admit this is a failure on our part.....We never cleaned it and it was stored on the floor that has carpeting. About a year and a half ago the computer would make much more noise and then 6 months ago the noise stopped. My theory is the loud noise was the cooling fan struggling to still turn. When the noise stopped it was because the fan just couldn't run anymore at all. This allowed the computer to overheat, damaging it. This is the only explanation my wife agreed with and allowed me to get a new computer.

Depends on the computer. On my parents' 1999 computer, we didn't dust it until a year or two ago, and it was fine. On my laptop, about every 18 months is necessary or the dust becomes excessive. It's certainly plausible that too high of temperatures were causing problems. The Sims might be demanding enough graphically to drive up temps, and after a few minutes... it might shut down with a BSOD to avoid cooking itself. Internet browsers shouldn't be as demanding, but if they're complex tabs, they can start eating up a fair bit of CPU power, thus raising temperatures.

6. Newer computers still come with a hookup to the old style monitors, right? Or do we need to buy a flat screen monitor?

I want a new monitor, she says since the old one still works so we can still use that until we move into a bigger place where we can run both computers and then we would have a reason for having two monitors.

Depends again. Some do, some don't. You'll want to look at the specs to see if it supports VGA connections (sometimes also called D Sub), if you plan to reuse the current monitor. It shouldn't be too hard to find one.
 
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