Last time i check, this wasn't a thread about alternative leaders of Ancient Egypt but alternative leaders of Egypt period. If that is the case then i'll suggest add the word ancient to the word egyptian on the title of the thread.
Namer, military old Egypt would be new.
Khufu, also from the old kingdom and he builds the biggest one that is what counts.
Ramses III. was the only one who defend his kingdom successful against the sea people. All other empires fall. Maybe he could get some massive dark age boni.
Either Unification of Upper and Lower Egypt, or the height of the New Kingdom of Egypt seem like the best options. Ideally it would have been Hatshepsut and Narmer, but Cleo is fine if we want to rep Ptolemaic Egypt. So I'm thinking Amenhotep III probably.
Surely, Narmer is a reasonable option too. But we suffer a significant lack of knowledge about him, and I think warlike Pharaohs in later eras are more remarkable in military triumph.
Of course we can still invite him as a counterpart to that Gilgabro in Uruk... that will be interesting.
Egypt is Egypt. It generally represents ancient Egypt because of the differences in culture, but culture changes over time anyway. Even if Egypt had never been conquered by anybody, it still wouldn't have stayed exactly the same. That's why Ethiopia and India have both had modern leaders with an ancient buildings.
Egypt is Egypt. It generally represents ancient Egypt because of the differences in culture, but culture changes over time anyway. Even if Egypt had never been conquered by anybody, it still wouldn't have stayed exactly the same. That's why Ethiopia and India have both had modern leaders with an ancient buildings.
It is not an "evolution" of culture for Egypt. Ancient Egypt was totally another thing that all are based on archeological findings. None living modern Egyptian has the cultural lineage so that is not an "evolution". Such a change is revolutionary, creating a gap between the ancient and islamic Egypt. Especially when this happened in ancient times, and the cultural cleft will only enlarge itself over time. Thus they became separate entities. They are only the same, by name, just like a Holy Roman Emperor will not have roman buildings.
The Holy Roman Empire wasn't even Roman. It controlled parts of Italy, but it was basically German, and wasn't even called "the Holy Roman Empire" for about 500 years.
Egypt, given the fact it's existed for incredibly long, should have 3 great leaders available to lead the civ in the game at the very least.
One male pharaoh (at least 12 excellent candidates), one female (most likely Hatch or Cleo) and one Muslim leader from more modern eras.
If the leader is of ancient Egyptian origin, the city names should be in (ancient) egyptian. If dating from the Ptolemaic Greek times, then they should be in Greeek. If from the Roman and later Byzantine era, then from Latin and if from past 7th century AD, then in Arabic.
I would suggest Muhammad Ali for the Arabic leader of Egypt (no, not the boxer).
The Holy Roman Empire wasn't even Roman. It controlled parts of Italy, but it was basically German, and wasn't even called "the Holy Roman Empire" for about 500 years.
Yeah, you see my point. The modern egyptians weren't ancient egyptian. It controlled the Egyptian territory, but it was basically Arabic, and the local people in ancient Egypt wasn't even calling themselves "Egyptians"
Egypt, given the fact it's existed for incredibly long, should have 3 great leaders available to lead the civ in the game at the very least.
One male pharaoh (at least 12 excellent candidates), one female (most likely Hatch or Cleo) and one Muslim leader from more modern eras.
If the leader is of ancient Egyptian origin, the city names should be in (ancient) egyptian. If dating from the Ptolemaic Greek times, then they should be in Greeek. If from the Roman and later Byzantine era, then from Latin and if from past 7th century AD, then in Arabic.
I would suggest Muhammad Ali for the Arabic leader of Egypt (no, not the boxer).
Nope, I disagree to add muslim leaders for Egypt. They had really nothing to do with the ancient Egyptians, neither the culture, the language nor the religion. None of these islamic leaders inherited the culture of ancient Egypt anyway. (Sadly, the christian coptic church inherited the language.)
I agree with @halfhalfharp: modern Egypt has nothing to do with ancient Egypt except name and geography, and even then Egypt is a Greek loanword. The Egyptian name for their own land was Kemet, and the modern descendants of ancient Egypt are the Copts, who have precious little political power in Islamic Egypt. Giving Ancient Egypt an Islamic leader is like giving the Powhatan George Washington as a leader. Egypt is not at all like Iran, which has had some degree of cultural continuity from antiquity--and NB it still doesn't get anything from post-Achaemenid Persia. India shouldn't be taken as the model here; it's one of the worst civ designs in the game from a thematic or historical viewpoint. IMO even including Ptolemaic Egypt in the civ is extremely dubious.
Ew Akhenaten. In my opinion most of the other leaders on the list are preferable to him, and more iconic (Rameses II in particular for his monuments Ozymandius-style). I'm not going to again detail why Akhenaten was a terrible pharaoh competence wise and less-neglectful of foreign borders wise (still, I guess he's a better fit for Civ's Egypt than Narmer lol). Agreed that modern Egypt doesn't fit Civ's Egypt. Also, modern Egypt wouldn't necessarily be as interesting historically as ancient Egypt to the general public.
Ew Akhenaten. In my opinion most of the other leaders on the list are preferable to him, and more iconic (Rameses II in particular for his monuments Ozymandius-style). I'm not going to again detail why Akhenaten was a terrible pharaoh competence wise and less-neglectful of foreign borders wise (still, I guess he's a better fit for Civ's Egypt than Narmer lol). Agreed that modern Egypt doesn't fit Civ's Egypt. Also, modern Egypt wouldn't necessarily be as interesting historically as ancient Egypt to the general public.
I remember you hating on Akhenaten in the Elimination threads, but can't recall your reason.... Maybe you think he's a heretic?
I don't think Sneferu is more iconic than Akhenaten....
If Ramesses II is added as Egypt's alt leader for Civ6, how different can Firaxis make him from his Civ5 appearance? Should he be a shriveled old man? Or with a head full of red hair?
Akhenaten neglected foreign policy (leaving Egyptian allies to the Hittite winds), forbade the worship of numerous traditional Egyptian gods (oppressive even to the workers on his new city), squandered the wealth from previous, better pharaohs, and basically was in many ways the self-aggrandizing Donald Drumpf of ancient Egypt (and as widely reviled).
Rameses should appear more muscular in Civ VI. He must have been ridiculously healthy given his lifespan.
Yeah, you see my point. The modern egyptians weren't ancient egyptian. It controlled the Egyptian territory, but it was basically Arabic, and the local people in ancient Egypt wasn't even calling themselves "Egyptians"
You're still comparing apples and oranges. The Holy Roman Empire was mostly German territory. Modern Egypt is at least in the same core area as ancient Egypt. There are obviously differences, but thousands of years will do that.
If Ramesses II is added as Egypt's alt leader for Civ6, how different can Firaxis make him from his Civ5 appearance? Should he be a shriveled old man? Or with a head full of red hair?
Except pharaohs (and most Egyptians in general) shaved their heads and wore wigs, which were generally black because that was considered the ideal. Could give him red eyebrows, though. Just...not Barbarossa fire engine red, please.
Except pharaohs (and most Egyptians in general) shaved their heads and wore wigs, which were generally black because that was considered the ideal. Could give him red eyebrows, though. Just...not Barbarossa fire engine red, please.
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If that is the case then i'll suggest add the word ancient to the word egyptian on the title of the thread.
Maybe you think he's a heretic? 
