1. We have added the ability to collapse/expand forum categories and widgets on forum home.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. All Civ avatars are brought back and available for selection in the Avatar Gallery! There are 945 avatars total.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. To make the site more secure, we have installed SSL certificates and enabled HTTPS for both the main site and forums.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Civ6 is released! Order now! (Amazon US | Amazon UK | Amazon CA | Amazon DE | Amazon FR)
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Dismiss Notice
  6. Forum account upgrades are available for ad-free browsing.
    Dismiss Notice

Which alternative Egyptian leader(s) would you like to see?

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by halfhalfharp, Jan 21, 2018.

?

Which alternative Egyptian leader would you like to have?

  1. Hatshepsut

    13 vote(s)
    39.4%
  2. Rameses II

    15 vote(s)
    45.5%
  3. Nefertiti/Akenaten

    9 vote(s)
    27.3%
  4. others (please specify in your reply)

    11 vote(s)
    33.3%
  5. Sneferu

    2 vote(s)
    6.1%
  6. Amenhotep III

    5 vote(s)
    15.2%
  7. Thutmose III

    4 vote(s)
    12.1%
  8. Narmer/Menes

    5 vote(s)
    15.2%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Zaarin

    Zaarin My Dearest Doctor

    Joined:
    May 14, 2016
    Messages:
    3,899
    Location:
    Terok Nor
    Modern Egypt would need to be included as a civ in the first place before discussion of an alternate leader became relevant...
     
    halfhalfharp likes this.
  2. Manifold

    Manifold ModderProtectionAdvocate

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,580
    Namer, military old Egypt would be new.
    Khufu, also from the old kingdom and he builds the biggest one that is what counts.
    Ramses III. was the only one who defend his kingdom successful against the sea people. All other empires fall. Maybe he could get some massive dark age boni.
     
    Havendish and halfhalfharp like this.
  3. Havendish

    Havendish Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2018
    Messages:
    80
    Gender:
    Male
    I'd add Thutmose I to the list.
    Akthenaten. Introduced a monotheistic religion in ancient Egypt, an original pharaoh.

    Since Cleo is in already (female), this excludes Hatshepsut, should be the other way around, Hatch in and Cleo out.

    Although overall, Ramesses II wins.
     
    halfhalfharp likes this.
  4. Zaarin

    Zaarin My Dearest Doctor

    Joined:
    May 14, 2016
    Messages:
    3,899
    Location:
    Terok Nor
    Henotheistic. Akhenaten didn't deny the existence of the other gods; he simply posited that only Aten was worthy of worship.
     
    Guandao likes this.
  5. PhoenicianGold

    PhoenicianGold Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2018
    Messages:
    189
    I voted Amenhotep III and "Other:" Narmer.

    Either Unification of Upper and Lower Egypt, or the height of the New Kingdom of Egypt seem like the best options. Ideally it would have been Hatshepsut and Narmer, but Cleo is fine if we want to rep Ptolemaic Egypt. So I'm thinking Amenhotep III probably.
     
    halfhalfharp likes this.
  6. halfhalfharp

    halfhalfharp Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2016
    Messages:
    517

    Surely, Narmer is a reasonable option too. But we suffer a significant lack of knowledge about him, and I think warlike Pharaohs in later eras are more remarkable in military triumph.
    Of course we can still invite him as a counterpart to that Gilgabro in Uruk... that will be interesting.
     
  7. awesome

    awesome Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2009
    Messages:
    2,642
    Location:
    behind you
    Egypt is Egypt. It generally represents ancient Egypt because of the differences in culture, but culture changes over time anyway. Even if Egypt had never been conquered by anybody, it still wouldn't have stayed exactly the same. That's why Ethiopia and India have both had modern leaders with an ancient buildings.
     
  8. halfhalfharp

    halfhalfharp Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2016
    Messages:
    517
    It is not an "evolution" of culture for Egypt. Ancient Egypt was totally another thing that all are based on archeological findings. None living modern Egyptian has the cultural lineage so that is not an "evolution". Such a change is revolutionary, creating a gap between the ancient and islamic Egypt. Especially when this happened in ancient times, and the cultural cleft will only enlarge itself over time. Thus they became separate entities. They are only the same, by name, just like a Holy Roman Emperor will not have roman buildings.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
    Guandao and Zaarin like this.
  9. awesome

    awesome Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2009
    Messages:
    2,642
    Location:
    behind you
    The Holy Roman Empire wasn't even Roman. It controlled parts of Italy, but it was basically German, and wasn't even called "the Holy Roman Empire" for about 500 years.
     
  10. Havendish

    Havendish Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2018
    Messages:
    80
    Gender:
    Male
    Egypt, given the fact it's existed for incredibly long, should have 3 great leaders available to lead the civ in the game at the very least.
    One male pharaoh (at least 12 excellent candidates), one female (most likely Hatch or Cleo) and one Muslim leader from more modern eras.
    If the leader is of ancient Egyptian origin, the city names should be in (ancient) egyptian. If dating from the Ptolemaic Greek times, then they should be in Greeek. If from the Roman and later Byzantine era, then from Latin and if from past 7th century AD, then in Arabic.

    I would suggest Muhammad Ali for the Arabic leader of Egypt (no, not the boxer).
     
  11. halfhalfharp

    halfhalfharp Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2016
    Messages:
    517
    Yeah, you see my point. The modern egyptians weren't ancient egyptian. It controlled the Egyptian territory, but it was basically Arabic, and the local people in ancient Egypt wasn't even calling themselves "Egyptians"

    Nope, I disagree to add muslim leaders for Egypt. They had really nothing to do with the ancient Egyptians, neither the culture, the language nor the religion. None of these islamic leaders inherited the culture of ancient Egypt anyway. (Sadly, the christian coptic church inherited the language.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
    Guandao and Zaarin like this.
  12. Zaarin

    Zaarin My Dearest Doctor

    Joined:
    May 14, 2016
    Messages:
    3,899
    Location:
    Terok Nor
    I agree with @halfhalfharp: modern Egypt has nothing to do with ancient Egypt except name and geography, and even then Egypt is a Greek loanword. The Egyptian name for their own land was Kemet, and the modern descendants of ancient Egypt are the Copts, who have precious little political power in Islamic Egypt. Giving Ancient Egypt an Islamic leader is like giving the Powhatan George Washington as a leader. Egypt is not at all like Iran, which has had some degree of cultural continuity from antiquity--and NB it still doesn't get anything from post-Achaemenid Persia. India shouldn't be taken as the model here; it's one of the worst civ designs in the game from a thematic or historical viewpoint. IMO even including Ptolemaic Egypt in the civ is extremely dubious.
     
    Morningcalm and Guandao like this.
  13. Guandao

    Guandao Rajah of Minyue and Langkasuka

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011
    Messages:
    4,601
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    New York City
    I voted for Akhenaten, cause I find him interesting....
    Seems like others still prefer Ramesses II to return.
     
    halfhalfharp likes this.
  14. Morningcalm

    Morningcalm Keeper of Records

    Joined:
    May 7, 2007
    Messages:
    3,390
    Location:
    Abroad
    Ew Akhenaten. In my opinion most of the other leaders on the list are preferable to him, and more iconic (Rameses II in particular for his monuments Ozymandius-style). I'm not going to again detail why Akhenaten was a terrible pharaoh competence wise and less-neglectful of foreign borders wise (still, I guess he's a better fit for Civ's Egypt than Narmer lol). Agreed that modern Egypt doesn't fit Civ's Egypt. Also, modern Egypt wouldn't necessarily be as interesting historically as ancient Egypt to the general public.
     
  15. Guandao

    Guandao Rajah of Minyue and Langkasuka

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011
    Messages:
    4,601
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    New York City
    I remember you hating on Akhenaten in the Elimination threads, but can't recall your reason....:p Maybe you think he's a heretic?
    I don't think Sneferu is more iconic than Akhenaten....

    If Ramesses II is added as Egypt's alt leader for Civ6, how different can Firaxis make him from his Civ5 appearance? Should he be a shriveled old man? Or with a head full of red hair?
     
  16. Morningcalm

    Morningcalm Keeper of Records

    Joined:
    May 7, 2007
    Messages:
    3,390
    Location:
    Abroad
    Akhenaten neglected foreign policy (leaving Egyptian allies to the Hittite winds), forbade the worship of numerous traditional Egyptian gods (oppressive even to the workers on his new city), squandered the wealth from previous, better pharaohs, and basically was in many ways the self-aggrandizing Donald Drumpf of ancient Egypt (and as widely reviled).

    Rameses should appear more muscular in Civ VI. He must have been ridiculously healthy given his lifespan.
     
  17. Guandao

    Guandao Rajah of Minyue and Langkasuka

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011
    Messages:
    4,601
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    New York City
    A younger, more muscular Ramesses II would work. Maybe with a Nemes headcloth as opposed to the crown he's wearing in Civ5?
     
    halfhalfharp likes this.
  18. awesome

    awesome Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2009
    Messages:
    2,642
    Location:
    behind you
    You're still comparing apples and oranges. The Holy Roman Empire was mostly German territory. Modern Egypt is at least in the same core area as ancient Egypt. There are obviously differences, but thousands of years will do that.
     
  19. Zaarin

    Zaarin My Dearest Doctor

    Joined:
    May 14, 2016
    Messages:
    3,899
    Location:
    Terok Nor
    Except pharaohs (and most Egyptians in general) shaved their heads and wore wigs, which were generally black because that was considered the ideal. :p Could give him red eyebrows, though. Just...not Barbarossa fire engine red, please. :p
     
    halfhalfharp and Guandao like this.
  20. Guandao

    Guandao Rajah of Minyue and Langkasuka

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011
    Messages:
    4,601
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    New York City
    We could just make Ramesses bald like Jayavarman VII. It would save the animation team a lot of time and effort. :p
     

Share This Page

Ebates: Get Paid to Shop