Which God Would You Follow/Worship? (not which civ)

[Mewtarthio]

edit: I know that Mulcarns hell was the 1st hell in the chain. It was generally sloping down away from a great mountain and it got colder the higher you got. Its real purpose was to drive people down into the next layer through their own pain and suffering, and to serve as a block for those that were trying to escape hell by going through it backwards. It was possible to escape any fo the hells by showing the virtues opposite that which your current hell emphasized to the degree of a saint. Great compassion in Camulos's, self sacrifice in Mammons, etc. That process would end with the long trek across Mulcarns frozen hell, climbing up and up, as it got colder and the terrain got rougher until you reached the top of the mountain and could, in theroy, leave the hells and go out into the ether.

Nice system. So, first you go to the God of Stasis to learn resignation, then you go to the God of Greed to learn selfishness, then the God of War to learn sadism...

What happens now that Mulcarn's dead? Does he still have a vault that accepts petitioners, or to the Evil Dead just fall into the Second Hell? And what would happen to Auric Ulvin if he died (assuming he really is Mulcarn reincarnated)?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I would think it would be more appropriate for Ceridwen to not have an actual vault; her vault would consist of the infinite empty space seperating every other vault, and/or of passageways connecting them. (The Nexus?)

But what do I know.

 

[Kael]

So, In Erebus, do newborns have a newly created soul? if so, who is creating them?

Good question, the divine spark, the true gift to humanity. That they are decended from the gods is what seperates them from the animals. That allows them to channel the divine, that makes their soul immortal even if that gift has been removed from their form.

I'll have patch "d" up tonight. Check out the History of Fall from Heaven in the concepts section for more details about Nemed, the creation of man, and many other new updates.

 

[Mailbox]

I'll have patch "d" up tonight. Check out the History of Fall from Heaven in the concepts section for more details about Nemed, the creation of man, and many other new updates.

Excellent!

 

[Ur_Vile_Wedge]

I'll have patch "d" up tonight. Check out the History of Fall from Heaven in the concepts section for more details about Nemed, the creation of man, and many other new updates.

PLease excuse my naive question. Do you mean the concepts section in the civelopedia, or in some thread somewhere? (and if it's the thread, please tell me where I can find it)

 

[MagisterCultuum]

He means in the Civilopedia

 

[Ur_Vile_Wedge]

But........ But....... I won't be able to look at it then until Thursday. So unfair

 

[MagisterCultuum]

So, where is Nemed now? Did he give up his immortality too (perhaps needing to sacrifice it to be able to create a new mate), or is he still living? Or perhaps did The One not kick him out of heaven like the others?


So, how can the dwarves use magic? Do they have immortal souls, or are they basically just really good golems? The Elves, Aifons, and Orcs are all descended from humans, thus from Nemed, but the Dwarves were given life by a single Goddess (perhaps similar to how Mulcarn gave Barnaxus sapience, but not a soul). Or did the divine spark from Keldon Ki pass on to his creations just like they would to his physical children?


I'm not sure I like knowing which 10 civs Patria split into, especially seeing that they are all current FfH civs. Having the Kuriotates around for that long kinda bothers me. I always assumed it was a very new but quickly expanding empire. Being new in the Age of Rebirth would seem more fitting for a creation/new birth sphere civ, imho. I also assumed that Perpentach spent all the Age of Ice in the tower of eyes, and so could not have founded the Balseraphs until the Age of Rebirth (although a shorter imprisonment could explain how he survived, since he would be unable to transfer his mind to new bodies while isolated). I'd rather only a few current empires (Elohim, Bannor, etc) be the same as from back then, and even they should have changed significantly. I would rather the 10 factions of Patria be mostly extinct civs, maybe including the Thraxians. (And who are they exactly?)

I'm also not sure I like it saying that every god created his/her own vault. It is really hard for me to imagine a vault of "pure balance"

Did Nemed create a vault prior to sacrificing his precept? If so, what happened to it? Was it controlled by Arawn for a time, then given to Sucellus?

I still don't like the claim that the gods are physically unable to enter Erebus without Mojosi's ritual. How did Nemed here there, and how did the gods wage war directly otherwise. I'd rather say the ritual is only a way around a barrier created by the Compact.

 

[xienwolf]

Kheldon isn't a god nor goddess. Kilmorph gave the Dwarves Life. Kheldon was just a man, though a talented sculptor (Read Bambur's Pedia).

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Yes, I know. I don't doubt that Kilmorph could give them life and intelligence, but that does not equal an immortal soul. Animals were created and given life by the angels, as were numerous other creatures that serve them, but these do not have souls and cannot channel magic. The history implies that souls can come only from direct descent from the original creations of The One. It does seem that dwarves have souls though, since otherwise I don't see why angels would seek their worship, and they would be unable to use magic.

I have difficulty accepting that anyone but The One could create a new soul. The story of Keldon Ki and Kilmorph is obviously based on Tolkien's story of Aule and and Illuvatar, but I'm not sure our version goes far enough since it is another step removed. Divine Spark, Flame Imperishable, Holy Spirit, whatever you want to call it the source would have to be The One (although in this world I suppose he may have lent it to the angels for a while).


The dwarves are Keldon's creations though, even if their life was not.


I was basing the idea that the soul somehow came from Keldon on the Divine Essence quote ("Every object retains a part of its creator's influence. Are we to expect that there is no part of the gods in us?--Cellion Jarl, spoken just before leaping off the Tower of Prisms"), but I don't really that it justifies it.


Also, what about angels? They are immortal too, and not just the ones made by The One, right? I guess we'll have to allow for more forms of "descent" than normal birth, while still separating it from other forms of creation. Maybe say that animals are made by the angels' power/will from raw elements, while other souls can only be made created out of the very soul of god?

Unless otherwise stated, I'll assume that there is a difference between "whispering new life" into an object (like Mulcarn did to Barnaxus) and "breathing life" into one (like Kilmorph did for the dwarves). The former may just be some magical incantation, but the latter sounds like it may involve imbuing them with a piece of your soul. In that case, it could be assumed that Dwarves do have souls, but their are descended from Kilmorph and not Nemed. That they were not given a gift from all the gods hough does seem to imply that their souls may be inferior to the other races though, which kinda bothers me.

I guess that Ars Moriendi was just lying about ours souls having always existed/ us having been dead before, right?

 

[evanb]

Question: what is this Bair of Lacuna that Os-Gabella retreated to and what is its relationship to the Amurite world spell Arcane Lacuna? Also, how did Os-Gabella become a student of Kylorin's?

 

[xienwolf]

Well, if souls pass into the vaults of the Gods after they die, should the god swipe them up before Arawn gets them, mayhaps Kilmorph just used a couple of "second-hand souls" so give them life.

 

[jimi12]

i didnt expect this many people to say they would follow The One. from a purely selfish standpoint, he doesnt really have anything to offer for your life in Erebu. Also, i am assuming, after you die you would still go to Arawn's vault since his is the "default" afterlife realm.

 

[zxcvbnm]

Well, it offers the best (supposedly) in the completely final sense, and Arawn's vault isn't that bad when compared to Agares's.

But, in which god's vault is the rain which forms some souls to tar demons?

 

[jimi12]

Tar Demons pedia entry:

Unclaimed by heaven and unwanted in hell, such is the fate of souls who held no conviction in life. They lay beneath the dark freezing rain of the first layer of hell, which is abandoned even by its lord and sustain themselves by consuming their own excrement. Over the ages their individual features are lost as hell transforms them into a black amorphous blob, becoming in form what their soul had been in life, obscure and indefinite.

And Kael just said Mulcarn had the first level of evil hell so this must be Arawn's hell?

Also, you would only go to agare's if you worshipped him. if you worshipped a good god you would go to that god's heaven.

 

[zxcvbnm]

Tar Demons pedia entry:

Unclaimed by heaven and unwanted in hell, such is the fate of souls who held no conviction in life. They lay beneath the dark freezing rain of the first layer of hell, which is abandoned even by its lord and sustain themselves by consuming their own excrement. Over the ages their individual features are lost as hell transforms them into a black amorphous blob, becoming in form what their soul had been in life, obscure and indefinite.

And Kael just said Mulcarn had the first level of evil hell so this must be Arawn's hell?

Also, you would only go to agare's if you worshipped him. if you worshipped a good god you would go to that god's heaven.

I don't think that's Arawn's, he's a neutral god.

Of course a worshipper of a good god would end up in a good heaven but I don't think it would be worth taking that risk.

 

[xienwolf]

Hrm, it does say that the wind up IN the first layer, and that it is a dark FREEZING rain. And Mulcarn HAS abandoned his Hell (as he is recovering/plotting from within Auric Ulvin or something). So I guess it is indeed Mulcarn's Vault.

 

[jimi12]

but arawn has also abandoned most of his duties as well, such as caring for the souls that enter his hell. I guess we will have to wait until Kael clears this up for up

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Arawn does not have a "hell." That term is only used for the Vaults of Evil Gods, which are all linked together anyway. I think that good angel's vaults are known as "heavens," while the neutral ones' are just called vaults. The Netherworld would just be a vault.

He has abandoned creation, to focus exclusively on the Netherworld.



Following The One can offer you immunity to magic both arcane and divine. That would be quite helpful in Erebus. I would probably have chosen him too had I realized it was allowed. I assumed only the angels were options.

 

[Mewtarthio]

Yes, but do you simply have to place your faith in The One, or do you actually have to be one of the Luonnatar? What does it take to become a Luonnatar, anyway? If I'd thought you could become magic immune by revering The One with the same effort as it'd take to revere an angel, I'd have picked him, too, but I figured it took something more than that.