Which New Civs should be in CIV V

[flyingeye76]

I personally think there are too few modern civs... Of the civs in Civ 4 only one (maybe two) came into existence after the games half-way point, while numerous civs disappeared before that same point.

Concerning my original statement about the US being in the game, I'm not losing any sleep over it. Americana (in this case a generic grouping of the US, Canada, Australia, & New Zealand neo-Anglo nations) is a distinct and viable civilization. But the reason why it sticks out so much is that most of the other groups were in some form around for thousands of years and had developed naturally. We on the other hand are a people that suddenly showed up a few hundred years ago from around the world.

 

[RobinHat]

Concerning my original statement about the US being in the game, I'm not losing any sleep over it. Americana (in this case a generic grouping of the US, Canada, Australia, & New Zealand neo-Anglo nations) is a distinct and viable civilization. But the reason why it sticks out so much is that most of the other groups were in some form around for thousands of years and had developed naturally. We on the other hand are a people that suddenly showed up a few hundred years ago from around the world.

Indeed! I think my sig says it all...
Having said that I have no problem with America being in the game.

 

[Paul Kettlebone]

I would like to see all of the current Civ IV empires stay (though I would like to see the Vikings fixed to the Danes) and the addition of Ireland, Scotland, Israel, and Vietnam. Since the vast majority of this game is a big "what-if" scenario I'm not sure it really matters how big or small the real world version of a civ might have been. It seems more important that the Civ had some impact on the course of human history. The lines tend to get blurry when we discuss peoples as opposed to nations as they are not always one and the same. Belgium is a prime example where you have two (that I know of) distinct groups of people but one nation.

As an American I would much rather see Teddy Rossevelt added as a leader over FDR or Lincoln. Even adding Thomas Jefferson would be nice.

 

[flyingeye76]

It should be noted that there would be a difference between the amount of civs you can play and the amount of civs you can choose from. Thus if so desired they can still have a basic 18 or 32 civ game, yet have 100 civs to choose from.

However if the other civs are any indication, they won't do that in order to create a market for expansions. That's why I wait for the 2nd expansion to come out before switching up to the next Civilization Game.

 

[Hsinchu]

New marketing shift:

Well, instead of expansions, they can take a page out of Gran Turismo's book. The game starts with 3 playable civilizations and you can buy packs of more civilizations a la carte in their new online store. This, however, would mean that they'd have to nerf the modding aspect that has made CivIV so replayable. However, it opens the door for other joke civilizations like the Smurfs, the Gummi Bears, and the Dwarven Horde.

 

[flyingeye76]

New marketing shift:

Well, instead of expansions, they can take a page out of Gran Turismo's book. The game starts with 3 playable civilizations and you can buy packs of more civilizations a la carte in their new online store. This, however, would mean that they'd have to nerf the modding aspect that has made CivIV so replayable. However, it opens the door for other joke civilizations like the Smurfs, the Gummi Bears, and the Dwarven Horde.

Unfortunately that would give certain corporate heads the temptation to start squeezing out the player mods and other features hosted here on this site, or at least heavily regulate the process to ensure themselves a nice profit.

Indeed! I think my sig says it all...
Having said that I have no problem with America being in the game.

As you say I have no problem with America being in a no holds bared game. FOr instance where else could you pit America with the Romans?

 

[Lil Post count]

Hebrews
New Guinea
Jamaica/Caribbean
Yugoslavia

 

[Mad Man]

North America
United States(minus Alaska and Hawaii)
Canada(minus the Northern part)
Mexico
Inuit
Sioux
Iroques
Cherokee
Aztecs
Olmecs
Mayans
Central America
Cuba
Caribbean

South America
Brazil
Argentina
Chile
Inca
Gran Colombia
Norte Chico

Europe
England
Scotland
Ireland
Netherlands(Benelux)
France
Spain
Portugal
Germany
Czechoslovakia
Austro-Hungary
Switzerland
Italy(minus the city of Rome)
Rome
Greece
Byzantium
Bulgaria
Yugoslavia
Romania(Transylvania and Wallachia are also acceptable)
Russia
Polish-Lithuania
Finland
Sweden
Denmark
Norway
Vikings(Iceland,Greenland,Faroe and Shetland)

Africa
Moors
Carthage/Vandals
Egypt
Nubia(Either as a separate civ or as part of Egypt)
Ethiopia
Swahili
Madagascar
Zulu
South Africa
Kongo
Nigeria
Ghana
Guinea
Mali

Asia
Ottomans
Hittites
Hebrews
Arabia
Sumeria
Babylonia
Persia
Huns
Mongolia
China
Korea
Japan
Philippines
Indonesia
Malaya
Siam
Khmer
Vietnam
India
Nepal

Oceania
Australia
New Zealand
New Guinea
Micronesia
Samoa
Tonga
Fiji
Hawaii
Tahiti
Easter Island

 

[RobinHat]

Finland
Sweden
Denmark
Norway
Vikings(Iceland,Greenland,Faroe and Shetland)

Sorry for being a sour grape, but that is just ridiculous....

First of all, Norway was always a part of Denmark up until 1814, when it became a part of Sweden... Only in 1905 did Norway become an independent country. Second of all, making a seperate Civilization called the 'Vikings' consisting of Iceland, Greenland, Faroe Islands and Shetland Islands is as wrong as throwing India, Australia and Canada together and calling them the 'Redcoat Civilization'...

 

[Camikaze]

Concerning my original statement about the US being in the game, I'm not losing any sleep over it. Americana (in this case a generic grouping of the US, Canada, Australia, & New Zealand neo-Anglo nations) is a distinct and viable civilization. But the reason why it sticks out so much is that most of the other groups were in some form around for thousands of years and had developed naturally. We on the other hand are a people that suddenly showed up a few hundred years ago from around the world.

It is ridiculous to group all of those modern day nations together, however. Sure, they do not represent a civilization in the traditional sense, but by that metric, no modern state would be included in the game, which wouldn't be fun/sensible. It could be said that such civs as England also do not merit a place, as it was the result of conquest rather than the permanent inhabitation of a land by a large group of nomadic peoples. So it doesn't really make sense to apply that definition of civilization to those civs included. Thinking of it in terms of nations is much more practical.

 

[Silv Something]

Oceania
Australia
New Zealand
New Guinea
Micronesia
Samoa
Tonga
Fiji
Hawaii
Tahiti
Easter Island

Do all of those Polynesian islands really need to be in the game?

 

[Tee Kay]

We could always follow EE3's lead and have just three civilizations (Western, Middle Eastern, Eastern).

 

[flyingeye76]

It is ridiculous to group all of those modern day nations together, however. Sure, they do not represent a civilization in the traditional sense, but by that metric, no modern state would be included in the game, which wouldn't be fun/sensible. It could be said that such civs as England also do not merit a place, as it was the result of conquest rather than the permanent inhabitation of a land by a large group of nomadic peoples. So it doesn't really make sense to apply that definition of civilization to those civs included. Thinking of it in terms of nations is much more practical.

Well as I've already stated I have no problem with America being in the game, it just provides an an often awkward piece in the game. Unlike England or Japan, it has no organic connection with the past. One could say that the native American peoples are it's connection. However a Native American and a Iroquois civilization already exists in the game.

 

[Mad Man]

Sorry for being a sour grape, but that is just ridiculous....

First of all, Norway was always a part of Denmark up until 1814, when it became a part of Sweden... Only in 1905 did Norway become an independent country. Second of all, making a separate Civilization called the 'Vikings' consisting of Iceland, Greenland, Faroe Islands and Shetland Islands is as wrong as throwing India, Australia and Canada together and calling them the 'Redcoat Civilization'...

Not really Norway was founded in 872AD and didn't unify with Denmark and Sweden until 1319 when the Kalmar Union was formed.

Do all of those Polynesian islands really need to be in the game?

Yes and no Easter Island and Tahiti were added at the last second but it still wouldn't make any sense to throw all the Pacific Islands together as a single civ, because there has never been united Polynesian state.

 

[RobinHat]

Not really Norway was founded in 872AD and didn't unify with Denmark and Sweden until 1319 when the Kalmar Union was formed.

Wrong.
Norway was under Denmark all the way back from the days of Harald Blaatand (~960 AD) and was never 'founded' as an independent country (Harald Hårfager did indeed become the first king of a united Norway in 872, but it was a short-lived event).
The Jelling Stone describes Norway as under Danish rule under Harald Blaatand, and Norway continued to be under Danish rule up through Canute the Great, and although Harald Hårderåde briefly took control of Norway after the power of Denmark dwindled (briefly before Battle of Hastings 1066), Norway remained under Danish rule up until 1814.

 

[Camikaze]

Well as I've already stated I have no problem with America being in the game, it just provides an an often awkward piece in the game. Unlike England or Japan, it has no organic connection with the past. One could say that the native American peoples are it's connection. However a Native American and a Iroquois civilization already exists in the game.

Well, if you take that to the extreme, all you would be left with is one Central African civ. So, if thought about that way, then including modern civs such as America is just the same as including civs like England, whose only difference in creation is chronological.

 

[Dumanios]

What would be cool is if there were fictional leaders(in Italics) in addition to the real leaders

The Americas
USA-George Washington,Abraham Lincoln and Franklin D. Roosevelt Jed Bartlet and Jack Ryan
Iroquois-Hiawatha and Deganawida
Sioux-Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse
Aztec Empire-Montezuma II and Itzcoatl Quetzalcoatl
Mayan Civilization-Pacal the Great and Smoke-Jaguar
Inca Empire-Huayna Capac and Atahualpa Manco Capac
Brazil-Dom Pedro I and Dom Pedro II

Africa

Zululand-Cetshwayo and Shaka Zulu
Boer Republic-Paul Kruger and Louis Botha Hikaro Takayama
Kongo-Lukeni lua Nimi and Tchimpa Vita
Mali-Mansa Musa and Askia Muhammad
Ethiopia-Zara Yaqob,Makeda and Haile Selassie
Egypt-Hatsheput,Cleopatra and Ramses Ra and Ozymandias

Middle East

Phoenicia-Hiram,Dido and Hannibal Barca
Israel-David,Solomon and David Ben-Gurion
Ottoman Empire-Osman,Suleiman the Magnificent and Mehmed II
Babylonia-Hammurabi and Nebuchadnezzer
Sumer-Gilgamesh Enkidu
Arabia-Abu Bakr,Salah ad'din and Muhammad ibn Abd-al-Wahhab
Persia-Cyrus,Darius and Xerxes Sheherazade

Asia

India-Ashoka,Chandrugupta Maurya and Indira Gandhi Rama
Siam-Suryavarman the Great and Mongkut
Polynesia-Kamehameha and Liliuokalani
China-Shihuangti,Taizong,Chiang Ki-shek and Mao Zedong Wu Qinghua and Xuangdi
Korea-Wang Kon,Sejong,Kim Jong-Ill and Syngman Rhee
Japan-Tokugawa Ieyasu,Oda Nobunaga,Toyotomo Hideyoshi and Hirohito Showa Yamato Takeru
Mongolia-Genghis Khan Temujin and Kublai Khan Khan Noonian Singh

Europe

Russia-Ivan the Terrible,Peter,Catherine the Great and Joseph Stalin Fearless Leader
Finland-Rysti Ryti
Sweden-Gustav Vasa and Eric the Victorious
Poland-Lithuania-Jan III Sobieski and Ignacio Moscicki
Austria-Hungary-Charles the Bald and Maximillian I
Greece-Pericles,Leonidas and Alexander the Great Oepidus and Zeus
Rome-Julius Caesar,Augustus Caesar and Justinian I and Romulus+Remus
Spain-Isabella,Ferdinand and Fransisco Franco
Portugal-Joao II and Henry the Navigator
France-Charlemagne,Louis XIV,Napoleon Bonaparte and Charles de Gaulle Prince Charming
Celtic Tribes-Brennus,Boadica and Vercingetorix
Netherlands-Willem van Oranje and Wilhelmina
UK-Elizabeth I,Victoria and Winston Churchill Arthur and Lear
Germany-Bismarck,Frederick and Hitler

 

[Silv Something]

Seems like something more fit for a mod to me.

 

[Huayna Capac357]

I would like to point out something: Gilgamesh, or at least the Gilgamesh we think of, never existed. The leader should be Uruk-agina

 

[flyingeye76]

Well, if you take that to the extreme, all you would be left with is one Central African civ. So, if thought about that way, then including modern civs such as America is just the same as including civs like England, whose only difference in creation is chronological.

Yes and No. By 4000bc all of the other civs in the packaged games have representatives of their cultural roots in their lands. Except for those elements of America that are taken from Native America, what we are was taken from a brew of cultures from around the world and suddenly and artificially transplanted where it didn't exist before. England is the cumulative result of layering of cultures for tens of thousands of years.