While We Wait: Part 2

[North King]

stJNES5 had in the 50s. Ah... *reminisces*

 

[lorgen]

Methinks im just to loud sometimes... Forum Games has developed very nicely of late. I would argue the NotW games deserve an area with post counts.. they are hardly the same as stupid word games..

Forum games are quite good, actually, except that there is a mafia game or two going on... NOTW and UGLE games are great, and at least we welcome new members. I read the thread Symphony directed me to regarding the placement of the NES games, and as I read it, it was mainly about; "We are better than anyone else, we do not want new players, and therefore we do not want to move to a sound place in the forums".

EDIT: which is why I really do not like this game to be moved.

And as I have already written in the game-thread, please ban lurkers from commenting. Lurkers ought to be, lurkers, the game is for the players, and lurkers tend to ruin a game. Lurkers ought to shut up until the game is over.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I read the thread Symphony directed me to regarding the placement of the NES games, and as I read it, it was mainly about; "We are better than anyone else, we do not want new players, and therefore we do not want to move to a sound place in the forums".

EDIT: which is why I really do not like this game to be moved.

And as I have already written in the game-thread, please ban lurkers from commenting. Lurkers ought to be, lurkers, the game is for the players, and lurkers tend to ruin a game. Lurkers ought to shut up until the game is over.

Most posters in the NES forum have pretty strong opinions that they willingly share. Many are adverse to change. Some are hostile to new players until they get to know them. It almost sounds like life. Jump right in and give what you can. There are many who will welcome you and help you learn the ways of this place. Some will even help you play, if you ask.

Personally, I like lurkers in my NES, they show up every now again and offer up pithy and relevant comments. It's nice to know that the audience goes beyond just the players.

 

[lorgen]

We've been over this about three times. It's here because here is where it happened to start, and we have no real reason to move at present, nor can we agree exactly on where to move, or when.

In addition, by and large most of us distrust the OT section, and we would essentially need our own subforum there as our volume of threads would basically swamp, say, All Other Games or Forum Games, and there's a general perception hardly anybody ever wanders in there anyway. Such a request is unlikely to be granted. There's the additional problem that our present moderators are somewhat more used to our behavior than newer mods might be, thus making such a transition difficult from an administrative standpoint to boot. It'd be a lot of work, basically, for not much guaranteed benefit, if any.

Most posters in the NES forum have pretty strong opinions that they willingly share. Many are adverse to change. Some are hostile to new players until they get to know them. It almost sounds like life. Jump right in and give what you can. There are many who will welcome you and help you learn the ways of this place. Some will even help you play, if you ask.

Personally, I like lurkers in my NES, they show up every now again and offer up pithy and relevant comments. It's nice to know that the audience goes beyond just the players.

I`ve just quit because the NES was moved here. I`ve read the link SYmphony gave to another debate about where the NES forums ought to be (previous page, I think), and the message was quite clear; we do not want new players, and when the game I signed up for in the forum games is invaded by lurkers, then I am out. I despise lurkers.

And no, you do not welcome new players here.

 

[jalapeno_dude]

It seems to me that your statement is hypocritical. The treatment of lurkers is analogous to the treatment of new players--both are trying to get involved in something they aren't in already. Why do you get mad that new players aren't welcomed well enough, but then try to stop lurkers from posting at all?

 

[lorgen]

It seems to me that your statement is hypocritical. The treatment of lurkers is analogous to the treatment of new players--both are trying to get involved in something they aren't in already. Why do you get mad that new players aren't welcomed well enough, but then try to stop lurkers from posting at all?

Nope, it is not wrong. Hypothetically; if you play chess with your brother/sister/uncle/aunt in a family arrangement. How would you feel if some great-uncle/aunt (lurker) started telling you how to play? They are not part of the game and ought to shut up. That regards every game. Either you play, or you watch, not comment.

 

[jeps]

I got involved in NESing through lurking. Commenting in JalNES was how I got pulled into that one. Commenting on ABNES... SAME THING! Lurking is the 1st step in some cases.

And at a sporting event, do you yell at fans who yell 'SHOOT THE PUCK!' or 'HURRY HARD!' or 'KICK!' or anything like that? No. It is the fans getting into the game. In fact, it is encouraged. ex: Seattle Seahawks, retiring #12, the 12th man = The fans. They shout and scream and comment and it motivates the team. The same with Lurkers, who provide valuable input that helps the NES as a whole.

 

[lorgen]

I got involved in NESing through lurking. Commenting in JalNES was how I got pulled into that one. Commenting on ABNES... SAME THING! Lurking is the 1st step in some cases.

But then you do that, lurk. Not jump into the thread and comment. Just watch

 

[jeps]

Wrong, I got pulled in by commenting. If I had lurked but said nothing, nobody would have said "j_eps, JOIN!" EDIT: oops, it was the Farow.

J eps you should join. I think Europe especially the Balkan and French region is very empty but I think jalapeno dude would like more Indian and Far East Asian nations.

If it wasn't for my 3-4 lurker posts, I would not have become Funan.

 

[lorgen]

And of course, I am childish according to j-eps, and I am not a worthy human being according to symphony and his friends, because I have not played NESes for years, so I really feel like home here. I wish the Abnes thread had not been moved to the "grumpy old guys"-section, then I might have played a game, actually, but the people here repulses me so much that I will not play in this forum.

 

[Symphony D.]

Most posters in the NES forum have pretty strong opinions that they willingly share.

Hah! Haha! Just never when you ask for it.

"We are better than anyone else, we do not want new players, and therefore we do not want to move to a sound place in the forums".

An intriguing and utterly inaccurate condensation of the arguments presented.

Lurkers ought to be, lurkers, the game is for the players, and lurkers tend to ruin a game. Lurkers ought to shut up until the game is over.

Amusing! Hating elitists yet also hating commentary from the peanut gallery! Sorry, that is hypocritical. What sort of nonsense is that anyway? "Hello, shut up, sit down, and don't say a word until this game is over <0.03 - 14> months later?" That's a great way to attract players! Historically it'd appear overwhelmingly more often than not that it's the players that fatally wound games anyway, but I digress.

On another note entirely, your signature is rather quite too long. You may want to condense it to 7 lines or less as per the forum rules.

 

[~Darkening~]

I'd like to be the annoying voice who pops in only for four words and a pair of exclamation marks.:

"Remember! Quality over quanity!

 

[jeps]

And of course, I am childish according to j-eps, and I am not a worthy human being according to symphony and his friends, because I have not played NESes for years, so I really feel like home here. I wish the Abnes thread had not been moved to the "grumpy old guys"-section, then I might have played a game, actually, but the people here repulses me so much that I will not play in this forum.

Two things - I did say to keep in mind all my arguments are about your statements, not personal attacks. Secondly, do you not see how saying "this is how I play so this is how everyone plays OR ELSE" is childish? I used to be a kid. That was how we did things. I don't know your age, but making a statement that the basic point of which is that is certainly childish.

 

[lorgen]

Hah! Haha! Just never when you ask for it.


An intriguing and utterly inaccurate condensation of the arguments presented.


Amusing! Hating elitists yet also hating commentary from the peanut gallery! Sorry, that is hypocritical. What sort of nonsense is that anyway? "Hello, shut up, sit down, and don't say a word until this game is over <0.03 - 14> months later?" That's a great way to attract players! Historically it'd appear overwhelmingly more often than not that it's the players that fatally wound games anyway, but I digress.

On another note entirely, your signature is rather quite too long. You may want to condense it to 7 lines or less as per the forum rules.

So, welcoming new players like cleric did in the thread you quoted; So what? We work best in this form. A large influx of new players would mean OMGWTFBBQ11!!! disasters.

is Ok?

And where is the anti-lurker-invention elitist? In my mind, everyone is free to join, but if you are not joining, then you ought not to comment until the game is over, else it might ruin a players game. How is that elitist and contradictionary? You, however, have not had any consistent arguments on the thread you shoved me.

 

[~Darkening~]

To destroy me previous statement, I have to pop in again.

The Sage says-" All people are new at one time."

 

[lorgen]

Two things - I did say to keep in mind all my arguments are about your statements, not personal attacks. Secondly, do you not see how saying "this is how I play so this is how everyone plays OR ELSE" is childish? I used to be a kid. That was how we did things. I don't know your age, but making a statement that the basic point of which is that is certainly childish.

Children tells their uncles what moves to make in a chess game, since they are not able to shut up.

 

[Contempt]

Just as a ridiculous arguement over elitism and hyprocisy takes place in an internet forum that concerns a game. If you want to play the game, simply ignore the peanut gallery, its not like your eyes have to read every piece of text it sees, and nor do you have to care what they say.

And if someone wants to be leave a game for, in my eyes, a silly reason why not let them? We're not big brother, and we're not here to tell you how to think or what to do.

In anycase, I truly don't care all that much about what other people decide to do with their free time, and I'm now just waiting patiently for the likely epic LINESII update...

 

[jeps]

Please note: cleric's opinions are not the opinions of NESing as a whole. As well, imagine if 100 new people came to OG and played your game, not knowing any of the rules. Something is bound to go wrong, is it not? I like the idea of new people coming, as it guarantees a future and new ideas. Others may not, but you seem to not like some people either. Lurking and questioning is a way to get a feel for something. If they didnt lurk and comment, they would less understand the rules, and the way things work. Look at BirdNES for that. Lurkers commenting, getting responses, and so on until they finally understand the complicated ruleset and join. As well, BJ has proven to be very helpful to new NESers, like Abbadon, who joined in BirdNES, and NukeKid.

You are saying you are better than the lurkers. You are also demeaning them for not joining, like you say we are supposedly doing to you. You make yourselves out to be better as you don't have a problem with annoying people who you can blame for the problems in a game. (if I were truly crude, I would compare this to the Jews in Nazi Germany being the cause of the problem, not contributing, and in fact ruining when it was the opposite, but since I am not like that I won't.) Lurkers are not the problem of any game. The players are. As such, in ABNES you can choose to be part of the NES or part of the problem.

EDIT:

Children tells their uncles what moves to make in a chess game, since they are not able to shut up.

It is not only children who interject. What about backseat drivers, who are usually adults? What about you interjecting in a NES to say 'everyone, get out if you aren't playing' when you had no right to do so? What about the childless sibling who talks about how to raise your kids?

It is childish to be the one to say as you did, that because in Other Games in your favorite games lurkers werent allowed, so they are not to be in the NES forum in a game and thread not your own. You then threatened to leave if you didnt get your way. I am breaking this down for you to see: do not spread bad things about us because we dont get down on one knee and thank you for saving us from the scourge of NESing, the lurker.If you want to leave, so be it, I shall not attempt to dissuade you further.

EDIT2: SECONDED Nylan's proposal. In fact, I shall start one now.

 

[Nylan]

I know how we can end this in a civil manner lorgen.

Make a poll here in the NES forum whether or not lurkers should be allowed. That solves two problems. One, it ends the spam-fests you (and the rest of us) hate so much in the NESes, as the argument will move there.

Secondly, it will decide the matter once and for all. A game is played collectively by a group of people. If only one person hates lurkers, but the rest like them it's not very fair to the rest if that one gets what he wants, is it? If you're confident that no lurking is the way it's supposed to go, then set up the poll. If you're afraid the numbers will go against you bc of "old farts" like us (I've actually only been NESing since february), get some of the players of the NESes from the forum games to vote.

It's only fair, civil, and just. It will end this matter once and for all.

 

[Symphony D.]

A large influx of new players would mean OMGWTFBBQ11!!! disasters.

Would you like a short history of the number on the attrocities committed by singular new members? Maybe DBZNES? Quite frankly sir, we have very good reasons to be afraid of the actions of singlular new players, let alone large groups of them.

A very nice example is the assortment of people from other forums who started TBWNES. Virtually none of them have joined other NESes or attempted to integrate into the community. They have instead set up their own shop more like an embassy. Large groups of new players who do not know the expectations of this forum are liable to exhibit similar behavior.

We did not just make these concerns up out of thin air.

else it might ruin a players game.

How? Please explain that to me. They might tell you what you're doing is incredibly foolish? Are you saying you'd rather not know if you were doing something silly?

You, however, have not had any consistent arguments on the thread you shoved me.

Interesting. Below are my more relevent posts and summaries of their contents:

Post 1 - OT is full of strange people and moving down would reduce our visibility.
Post 2 - Arbitrary behavior is bad and rapid increases in players overwhelms the absorbative ability of educating players.
Post 5 - OT is full of strange people, reactionary movements are bad, Thlayli makes bad arguments. There is no need to move at present.
Post 6 - An eventual move is preferable but again there is no need to move at present until we're prepared to do such a thing.
Post 8 - There is no need to move at present.
Post 9 - There is no need to move at present.
Post 10 - There is no need to move at present.

If you'd care to describe how my arguments were inconsistent with one another, feel free.

I maintain, however, that all concerns raised there exist for a reason, and are not arbitrary in any fashion. If you think we are elitist scum to be avoided at all costs, fair enough, but we have arrived at our opinions and decisions not by accident, but by experience.