While We Wait: Part 4

[North King]

Didn't the Han push out most of the ethnic Tibetans by now anyway?

More like outpopulated them. At this point, a free Tibet makes about as much sense as a Native American free state in the Great Plains, because the population is possibly a majority Han (I forget the exact figures). That's the population of Tibet, obviously, not the Great Plains.

 

[alex994]

Yeah, because everybody knows all those unique and interesting applications of cattleprods in Tibet were just capitalist pig-dog lies...

Yes, same as how everybody knows about how the Tibetans in Lhasa suddenly rose up in a bloody riot against every non-Tibetan they could get their hands on, burning shops, overturning cars, attacking government buildings and etc... I have no sympathy for the rioters in Lhasa, the PRC can crush them as any government would crush a violent riot. The peaceful protests outside of Lhasa in the aftermath of the riots in Lhasa and how they were dealt with are another story.

I hope your being sarcastic...the President is appointed by the Presidium at best, or perhaps an heir apparent to the guy before him. The Premier is appointed by the President, who consults with the Party (the only Party allowed), and approved by the National People's Congress. That "approval" is a rubber stamp.

The only thing the people vote on is village leaders and "people's congresses" who then do the voting for the NPC. You can't move up the ranks without consent of the Party, you can't really run for much other than the lowest possible level without the consent of the Party either.

You know all of this though.

Your scared of a race war against the Chinese by some vast Tibetan movement? Didn't the Han push out most of the ethnic Tibetans by now anyway?

Of course I'm being sarcastic azale, my Chinese bias aside, I am perfectly aware that the PRC is nothing close to being a democracy I'm not scared of a race war for the Han sake, but for the sake of the Tibetans. They've shot themselves in the foot with their riot. There will be little sympathy in the future from the majority of Chinese in China. If the PRC turn around 180 and become really nice to the Tibetans after this, you'll be seeing real riots, riots all across China.

And while you may love the collapse of the PRC azale, I don't.

It can hardly be called a war where one side has the world's largest standing army, the world's largest population, and centers of colonists throughout the homeland of its enemy, who numbers under six million.

Thus their actions are even more frustrating. If we're so powerful, so great, and so mighty, why do they keep on defying us even when we give them so many benefits and want to live in peace and make money?

More like outpopulated them. At this point, a free Tibet makes about as much sense as a Native American free state in the Great Plains, because the population is possibly a majority Han (I forget the exact figures). That's the population of Tibet, obviously, not the Great Plains.

Indeed, my parents went to Tibet last fall and had a rather enjoyable time there. Their guide, a native Tibetan, supposedly had rather humorous jokes about certain towns in Tibet having seven Han to three Tibetans. If a democratic election was held in Tibet about its future, it will democratically vote to stay part of China in part due to the massive numbers of Han migrants, especially millions of them from Sichuan.

 

[Symphony D.]

Yes, same as how everybody knows about how the Tibetans in Lhasa suddenly rose up in a bloody riot against every non-Tibetan they could get their hands on, burning shops, overturning cars, attacking government buildings and etc... I have no sympathy for the rioters in Lhasa, the PRC can crush them as any government would crush a violent riot. The peaceful protests outside of Lhasa in the aftermath of the riots in Lhasa and how they were dealt with are another story.

I'm talking more about everything the PRC has done to oppress Tibet since about the 1960s and on, which lends all this "new" race war business a whiff of bull defecation. China made the bed they're currently laying in quite a long time ago.

 

[alex994]

I'm talking more about everything the PRC has done to oppress Tibet since about the 1960s and on, which lends all this "new" race war business a whiff of bull defecation. China made the bed they're currently laying in quite a long time ago.

While the PRC's track record in Tibet hasn't exactly been clean (more like down right black), they have brought a great deal of benefits to Tibet. Tibet benefits more economically to be part of China than outside of it and the standard of living is improving (though I'm told the Tibetans do not like the degradation of their "spiritual" standard of living). Yes, it is indeed China's fault for the madness of Mao's Cultural Revolution and others, but for the most part, that's over. The past can't be changed, simply live with it and try to look forward to a better future; something it seems that most Tibetans have accepted.

And these days the Tibetans, and all minorities for that part, get more benefits in China than Han Chinese!

 

[das]

I agree that the whole point is kind of moot; even if Tibetans were numerous enough to warrant their own nation, it's not like they could really do anything about it, and it is also not as though the Chinese had not brought anything good into it. An independent Tibet (like so many other nations people want to make independent, or nations that did become independent much to their eventual woe) would be quite a mess, economically, ethnically and politically.

At this point, a free Tibet makes about as much sense as a Native American free state in the Great Plains, because the population is possibly a majority Han (I forget the exact figures). That's the population of Tibet, obviously, not the Great Plains.

I would've compared it with certain republics of Russia, but the Khanty-Mansi Autonomous District has only a 2% native population, and even then it still is autonomous. Still, at least it's not a "free state"...

 

[Luckymoose]

I wouldn't be opposed to a native American free state. The poor guys have had it far worse than the Jews did.

 

[das]

They should probably be gathered up and deported to Spain, where they should be granted an autonomous region for the sake of historical justice (seeing as it were the Spanish that brought the diseases that wiped out most of their population). Plus the Spanish already have lots of discontent autonomous ethnic minorities; the more, the merrier.

EDIT: Alternatively, we could send them back to their brethren in their historic homeland of Siberia! There is a lot of space for them there, and we already have a Jewish Autonomous District over there, so why the hell not.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

Why not just send everyone back to Africa and establish a single sovereign state for everyone to live in? Much more practical, you see.

 

[das]

An even better solution is to reverse the previous 250 million years-worth of continental drift, glue everything together into one big happy continent and move everyone around from one end to another (to take a leaf off the Assyrian book). Maybe settle all self-proclaimed cosmopolitans in the central regions, and have the various nationalists and suchlike dwell in the peripheral territories. That actually sounds like a pretty fun concept for a NES, come to think of it.

 

[silver 2039]

Has anyone heard about that book where all human dissappear off the face of the world? (No not the stupid JEEBUS! one) Its an intreasting idea, about what would happen to our cities and such, like how New York would flood, and how a new bacteria would evolve to break down plastic particulates in the ocean and things like that. And how all our nuclear plants would melt down and such. A cool concept.

 

[Azale]

And while you may love the collapse of the PRC azale, I don't.

If by collapse you mean the slow transfer of power to a more democratic system (with a stronger executive than your usual Western democracy) and a more capitalist system, then yes.

If you mean a new civil war, then no. The Chinese have had it rough to earn that "around for 5,000 years!" claim

 

[North King]

While the PRC's track record in Tibet hasn't exactly been clean (more like down right black), they have brought a great deal of benefits to Tibet. Tibet benefits more economically to be part of China than outside of it and the standard of living is improving (though I'm told the Tibetans do not like the degradation of their "spiritual" standard of living). Yes, it is indeed China's fault for the madness of Mao's Cultural Revolution and others, but for the most part, that's over. The past can't be changed, simply live with it and try to look forward to a better future; something it seems that most Tibetans have accepted.

True, the past is past, and can't be changed. But it shouldn't be forgotten, either. Wiping out around a million Tibetans is an act that's enough to condemn the PRC, especially as it shows no real signs of changing.

 

[silver 2039]

I like to think that I avenged the Tibetans in AFNES...

 

[alex994]

Has anyone heard about that book where all human dissappear off the face of the world? (No not the stupid JEEBUS! one) Its an intreasting idea, about what would happen to our cities and such, like how New York would flood, and how a new bacteria would evolve to break down plastic particulates in the ocean and things like that. And how all our nuclear plants would melt down and such. A cool concept.

Yeah, though we won't be around to see its coolness

True, the past is past, and can't be changed. But it shouldn't be forgotten, either. Wiping out around a million Tibetans is an act that's enough to condemn the PRC, especially as it shows no real signs of changing.

True, but don't expect an apology or anything like that sort from the PRC for at least a few decades if not more. This is off-topic, but if Japan can last more than 50 years without apologizing for her crimes against humanity, I'm sure the PRC can last a lot longer.

I like to think that I avenged the Tibetans in AFNES...

And I like to think the current situation is China's revenge upon Tibet for all those wars of humilation in AFNES (yes, this was in poor taste)

 

[North King]

True, but don't expect an apology or anything like that sort from the PRC for at least a few decades if not more. This is off-topic, but if Japan can last more than 50 years without apologizing for her crimes against humanity, I'm sure the PRC can last a lot longer.

Sure, but I reserve the right to be a PRC hater until then.

 

[alex994]

Sure, but I reserve the right to be a PRC hater until then.

That's your prerogative, but I think as a way to express your hatred of the PRC, you should stop using all products Made in China

 

[North King]

That's your prerogative, but I think as a way to express your hatred of the PRC, you should stop using all products Made in China

I'm anti-autocratic, not protectionist.

Free trade is probably the best way to introduce Western ideas into Chinese society.

 

[JosefStalinator]

I don't know where you guys are getting this nonsense about Tibet being a majority Han Chinese; yes, the Chinese are attempting to overwhelm the Tibetans and manipulate the demographics so they can hold onto Tibet forever, but the Tibet autonomous region is still 92% Tibetan according to Wikipedia...

 

[silver 2039]

Tibet autonomous region is still 92% Tibetan according to Wikipedia..

Ah in that case ethnic cleansing IS the souloution in the event of Tibetan independence!!!

 

[Birdjaguar]

I can no longer see whose visiting this forum. Anybody else having the same experience?