While We Wait: The Next Generation

[Arian]

What sort of contributions would those be? Audio, video, or both? (I do plan to eventually read A Brave New World, which I am kicking myself for missing, but can't take the time to read such a massive thread at the moment).

I also agree on Heroes. For some reason the added free reign of creating races as well as nations seems to be freeing people up, I know it is for me. I have a very strong feeling that that NES is going to be a more succesful "Return to Our Roots" (in terms of story rather than game focus) than RTOR's generally are.

See post 63 of this thread.

 

[Justo]

Comment on Justo's stuff: sounds a lot like Victoria.

The tech stuff, start date etc have come from Victoria.

The tech stuff is not set in stone. I'm hoping some other NESers have got some new radical technology ideas to bounce around.

 

[a_propagandist]

Dudes do none of you want to mod das's indutrial alt-hist I gave up on?

The rules and map are there, and partially completed stats.

Depending on the extent of the stats, I would be interested.

 

[Ekolite]

On the subject of Video and Audio, I think it is very unlikely that people will invest the large amount of time needed to make these. However, an interesting idea could be to use a powerpoint in place off an update? It would be essentially very similiar, perhaps with a higher focus on pictures rather then words, but it would be an interesting format none the less.

 

[EQandcivfanatic]

@Ekolite: that's actually a REALLY good idea. The main problem i'd forsee is that not everyone has Powerpoint, and the powerpoint would have to be downloaded by each individual person.

 

[Ekolite]

Hmmm....

I would have thought most people have at least Powerpoint viewer, I was under the impression (perhaps wrongly) that it came with Windows. I don't see any problem with it having to be downloaded in honesty, they would have had to download the Video or Audio file too, if the players aren't willing or can't download it then they won't play...

I think a powerpoint is a good way of trying an alternate fomat without having to go about making Videos, something that I certainly can't do and I would guess quite a few other people on the forums can't.

 

[Symphony D.]

Retroactive deletion.

 

[Ekolite]

No actually I (and many other people) wouldn't know how to make one, it's not exactly common knowledge. On the other hand anyone with the program can make a reasonably effective powerpoint.

It would allow for actions of players and how the world changes to be shown bit by bit, with maps of different times within the turn on different slides, as well as being much more dramatic then a written update and music that fits the mood of the update could be attatched easilly to the slideshow, I think it has potential really.

 

[Symphony D.]

Retroactive deletion.

 

[Ekolite]

That would be a reasonable argument if you did not have a resource with the scope and content of the Internet at your fingertips. However you do. The fact is not that you can't, as a vast sea of knowledge on how to do so is somewhere around two clicks and twenty keystrokes away. The fact is that you won't because you don't care to know how to.

Those are two very, very different things, and I for one am rather tired of people around here confusing the two. There is extremely little that is beyond the reach of anyone here, instead residing simply beyond their will. The motto of the NES forum would probably be in the style of Bartleby, the Scrivener: "I would prefer not to."

Ok that's understandable. However, many people do not want to spend hours and hours learning how to make effective videos and then making a video for each and every update. It's just too much work. There is nothing wrong with not wanting to do something because it is too difficult, or in their opinion not worth the time to make it when there are easier methods that are just as effective.

I can see your point that people can, in theory put the effort into learning the procedure and then investing the time needed to produce the videos, but some people are not interested in this, or don't have enough spare time. There is nothing wrong with this.

 

[Symphony D.]

Retroactive deletion.

 

[North King]

By that standard, it's not that you can't speak Nahuatl, since it only takes a few clicks to get to a free online course or you only have to shell out a few hundred dollars to get a decent tutorial program. It's that you don't want to. It's not that you can't change constitutional law, after all you can raise millions of dollars, run for high political office, win, and change the law. It's that you don't want to do so.

Yes, I can't make a video on the computer. With my current degree of technical knowledge, it's impossible. Can I learn how? Yes, and then I would be able to make one. But currently I cannot.

 

[Symphony D.]

Retroactive deletion.

 

[Lord_Iggy]

It's simply that this forum is willing to tolerate years worth of glacial improvement rather than mildly inconvenience itself for a few days to learn how to do something new or a better way of doing something old.

I believe that this is it- I have such a good time doing things for NESes that I haven't bothered to get a program for editing that is better than Paint Shop Pro 3, which I got as freeware out of Chieftess' signature.

I'm getting the Gimp now.

 

[North King]

Of course it was hyperbole, but so was your own initial example. Oh yes, in twenty keystrokes and two clicks I will know perfectly well how to make any kind of video I should ever wish to.

It doesn't work like that.

 

[Symphony D.]

Retroactive deletion.

 

[Jason The King]

Some people can't take the time to both learn and actually make a video for NESing, simple because they don't have the time. People have work, studying, and a social life to get to that leaves only a spare few hours for NESing a week, and they simply can't waste it on learning how to make a video. But I'll agree with you that most just aren't willing, and I think we are both in agreement that that is quite alright, so long as they don't characterize it as an inability.

That said, has it occurred to you that what you may characterize as "progress" isn't always the case for other people? Take your map comment, for instance. During the 3 years that mostly only one map was used in NESing there were in fact other maps presented, and if I cared enough I would dig them up for you. Among them Plexus redrew a map, among with bigger-then-necessary maps as well as smaller maps, and a map I'm using now in Superpowers. The main map was used mainly because it was the best map suited for the job. The other maps could have been deemed "progressive" but some people like you, but ultimately they failed to catch on.

So while your new maps may seem to you more accurate, bigger, and clearer, some may have a different opinion as to whether or not it is "progressive." I personally believe they are too big, and pay too much attention to detail that it makes it harder to update, and harder to read.

 

[Symphony D.]

Retroactive deletion.

 

[Israelite9191]

The fact that that map was continually improved is proof enough that others (chiefly North King, Cuivienen, and Israelite9191) were similarly dissatisfied with it.

You're right that many people, includin myself, have always been disatisfied with the innacuracies of the standard NES Map. However, the great advantages of this map versus others proposed are why it is in use, not because everyone here but you is so damned lazy. I have made a concious decision to use the standard NES Map and not any others because its size is just about perfect (large enough to show some detail, small enough for easy editing and vewing), and it is accurate enough, with a few exceptions, for use in NESing. There are obviously some significant flaws that have had to be fixed over the years, but at this point most of those have been fixed (the only thing I had to change for YosefNES was adding Sulu, IIRC EDIT: also the West African coast around Senegal, which was a total mess). Yes, your maps are certainly an advance in accuracy, but not, I would argue, in utility.

 

[Dachs]

However, the great advantages of this map versus others proposed are why it is in use, not because everyone here but you is so damned lazy.

I have made a concious decision to use the standard NES Map and not any others because its size is just about perfect (large enough to show some detail, small enough for easy editing and vewing), and it is accurate enough, with a few exceptions, for use in NESing. There are obviously some significant flaws that have had to be fixed over the years.

These don't seem like great advantages over any improved version of the map. Newer versions are both more accurate and equally well sized (if you assume the sizing of the map is optimal, of course)...so are you saying that being less accurate is a great advantage?

Even 'fixed' as it is in the 'standard' map, Africa in general is almost completely wrong, something I discovered to my dismay when working on the colonial map for DaNES I. Greece and Anatolia - two absolutely critical regions - are very much screwed up, and the northern United States is a mess as well. And then there is the total charlie-foxtrot that is Central and Eastern Europe. It does not present information accurately, and as such is a disservice to the players and a pain in the butt to a mod who tries to do any work in that area. I remember attempting to add Galicia to Russia and noting that whatever I tried looked screwed up, as did any modifications to the Polish border with Second Reich Germany, or anything involving Bohemia. With the Symphonic/Northern maps, the result was far superior.