While We Wait: The Next Generation
- Thread starter Turner
- Start date
- Status
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
It's very interesting how everyone says "But the players will know what's in the unknown!" to justify the changes.
It honestly shouldn't matter. From an in character perspective, everything is completely new to the discoverers, even if it isn't new to the players. Keeping the old New World shouldn't change that, unless players are openly trying to use real world knowledge to enhance their in game success.
If they respect the game, then they shouldn't be doing that to begin with.
It honestly shouldn't matter. From an in character perspective, everything is completely new to the discoverers, even if it isn't new to the players. Keeping the old New World shouldn't change that, unless players are openly trying to use real world knowledge to enhance their in game success.
If they respect the game, then they shouldn't be doing that to begin with.
Disenfrancised
Beep Beep
Yeah with the Baltic being a major source of supplies for exploration and colonisation I'm sure different winners and losers in the 'Open the world' game won't affect you at all.
Yeah...no, you can't wall up your foreknowledge completely. For reference - pretty much any fresh start on an Earth map where environment mattered.
Daftpanzer
canonically ambiguous
Thlayi said:As Iggy mentioned with his timely bump, DaftNES can, will, and must be restarted.
For the good of the NESing populace, Daft, it is your duty.
Well I've definitely no shortage of possible projects to work on this year
Umm... this is something not entirely unrelated, my response to the discussion of a few pages back:
A Discourse on the Expurgation of Lulz
I noticed that Symph referred to one of my maps for the Alternate Timeline thing, as an example of what is wrong with NESing. I think he actually let me off pretty lightly but that's not the point.
I resent being considered an enemy of realism in any way. I don't think I or anyone else here actually has anything against realism.
Personally I feel I am always willing to learn and improve. Sure, I may dive into things I don't understand well, in order to actually do get anything done at all, but I don't make mistakes on purpose just to annoy people. And it doesn't mean I won't make changes in future.
I don't think unrealistic NESes should be taken as an 'insult' to realism. It doesn't mean people have no interest in learning. It simply reflects the fact that the will to make and play NESes is greater than the fear of creating something unrealistic. If it were not so, there would basically be no NESes, or at least none by myself. Maybe that would have been better... I'll leave that to others to decide
I'd agree that harsh criticisms alone won't affect any change. Symph and others need to run high-realism games on the forum and lead by example. Or else be content to educate others whenever they see fit.
I'm sure another SymNES would be welcome at any time.
Given the range of other activities competing for people's time, IMO it's a blessing that this forum exists at all. I propose that the presence of younger people here is actually a good thing. Who is actually stopping anyone else from running a realistic NES? Those who run games always have the power to freeze out any players who are 'unhelpful'.
In closing, I'd like to add that anyone who can accurately model a whole planet of people over hundreds of years is no less than Godlike. Lets face it; true realism is an unreachable ideal. We shouldn't just give up on realism, but nor should we be too harsh on anyone willing to make at least little effort.
Personally, I have found my NESing experience fun and educational thus far.
END
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
NESing isn't meant to be fun, it's meant to be taken as seriously as any heart attack should be.
Terrance888
Discord Reigns
Now, now... you are starting to sound like Neverwonagam3 there...
I agree with Daft.
I agree with Daft.
Not what I meant, dude.
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
I feel that the presence of a das NES as the 'forum staple' for both quality and popularity led to that semi-Centrist model (of at least pseudo realism) to be the guiding light and template for most NESes.
Since the NES2 era is largely dead, I think that RTOR has replaced it as the general 'canned NES' ideal template, and the average level of realism has regressed a little. The complete absence of well crafted guess the PoD maps has contributed to this in part.
Since the NES2 era is largely dead, I think that RTOR has replaced it as the general 'canned NES' ideal template, and the average level of realism has regressed a little. The complete absence of well crafted guess the PoD maps has contributed to this in part.
Symphony D.
Deity
I didn't label you an enemy of everything. I simply said your treatment of geography was symptomatic of a general lack of attention that permeates everything here. A state exercising political control across this and only just barely is pretty WTH-level ignorance of terrain even if it's comparatively a very minor transgression. Regarding the "If you don't like it, you do better," line of general argument: no. Having said the same things so many times before, let's try new ones: this place is a terminal case, a unsalvageable ship, a slowly evaporating black hole.
To make a comparison Moderator Action: edited[ , this forum is a close analog for the YouTube LP Community: willing to tolerate anything no matter how bad. Poor quality is seen as a right defended rabidly by the citizenry, and even the most base and vile drek is trumpeted by somebody. Over there it's under the banner of "How dare you not appreciate my effort to film my TV with a cellphone and upload it?," here it's under the banner of "Oh my god you jackass random crap that doesn't make sense is awesome, how dare you try to turn this into some dreary real life lookalike?" There is a disconnect between the people who want more, and the people who gleefully wallow in their circumstances. There is no attempt at understanding one another. There is no acknowledgment that there is unfair characterization. There is no attempt to actually understand what has been said. There is no desire to improve. There is no desire for quality control. It is an environment where quality is immaterial and the people want and openly proclaim without apology their desire for only one thing: quantity.
The reason I find myself disinclined to try is precisely because of the audience my work would come into possession of. I wouldn't make an LP for YouTube, and I won't make games for here. I would generally prefer to leave you all to what it is you do, because I know after years of experience that things will always be like this. Things won't change.
Continuing to invoke my name will earn you nothing but derision and scorn from me, because that's all I have left regarding this place, ChaNES mostly excluded. Unless that's your cup of tea, stop talking at me because I have no interest in negotiating or reasoning with you. I am only explaining my animosity so you cease to try.
To make a comparison Moderator Action: edited[ , this forum is a close analog for the YouTube LP Community: willing to tolerate anything no matter how bad. Poor quality is seen as a right defended rabidly by the citizenry, and even the most base and vile drek is trumpeted by somebody. Over there it's under the banner of "How dare you not appreciate my effort to film my TV with a cellphone and upload it?," here it's under the banner of "Oh my god you jackass random crap that doesn't make sense is awesome, how dare you try to turn this into some dreary real life lookalike?" There is a disconnect between the people who want more, and the people who gleefully wallow in their circumstances. There is no attempt at understanding one another. There is no acknowledgment that there is unfair characterization. There is no attempt to actually understand what has been said. There is no desire to improve. There is no desire for quality control. It is an environment where quality is immaterial and the people want and openly proclaim without apology their desire for only one thing: quantity.
The reason I find myself disinclined to try is precisely because of the audience my work would come into possession of. I wouldn't make an LP for YouTube, and I won't make games for here. I would generally prefer to leave you all to what it is you do, because I know after years of experience that things will always be like this. Things won't change.
Continuing to invoke my name will earn you nothing but derision and scorn from me, because that's all I have left regarding this place, ChaNES mostly excluded. Unless that's your cup of tea, stop talking at me because I have no interest in negotiating or reasoning with you. I am only explaining my animosity so you cease to try.
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
I wouldn't say that the market for realism is so small as you suppose, Symph. Simulationism isn't the only delivery vehicle for such things, and more recent attempts (like N3S) at realistic gameplay have met with a lot of success.
Yes, there isn't a great deal of willingness to lead, but there has always been a significant desire to follow. Good ideas will attract players regardless, since (for the most part) the players most interested in realism remain, lurking, waiting for an opportunity to join a good game.
Yes, there isn't a great deal of willingness to lead, but there has always been a significant desire to follow. Good ideas will attract players regardless, since (for the most part) the players most interested in realism remain, lurking, waiting for an opportunity to join a good game.
Symphony D.
Deity
Retroactive deletion.
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
If you really didn't desire to be responded to, you wouldn't continue to post manifestos proclaiming your disdain for the common man. You would just ignore us.
You didn't close SymNES because of the players. You closed it because of your own desires, whether they're rooted in excessive workload or another issue. You had committed, dedicated players sending orders on a regular basis, strongly interested in your game, players that MAINTAINED interest even after it was clear you had lost it. So don't claim that the player community is the problem. Part of it isn't interested in realistic gameplay, but part of it is. Saying otherwise is just bull.
You have criticized the ENTIRE community, including your fellow Simulationists. Even if I and others are guilty of what you claim, it is patently unfair to tar the entire forum with the same brush.
And you don't have to respond to this. You can continue to maintain the illusion of your superior status by merit of two moderated NESes that died before the third update, but it won't fly with me. Yes, you are a very skilled player. But in failing to moderate successfully, you ultimately succumb to the same failings as EVERY OTHER MODERATOR in this forum. So please, quit the hypocrisy.
You didn't close SymNES because of the players. You closed it because of your own desires, whether they're rooted in excessive workload or another issue. You had committed, dedicated players sending orders on a regular basis, strongly interested in your game, players that MAINTAINED interest even after it was clear you had lost it. So don't claim that the player community is the problem. Part of it isn't interested in realistic gameplay, but part of it is. Saying otherwise is just bull.
You have criticized the ENTIRE community, including your fellow Simulationists. Even if I and others are guilty of what you claim, it is patently unfair to tar the entire forum with the same brush.
And you don't have to respond to this. You can continue to maintain the illusion of your superior status by merit of two moderated NESes that died before the third update, but it won't fly with me. Yes, you are a very skilled player. But in failing to moderate successfully, you ultimately succumb to the same failings as EVERY OTHER MODERATOR in this forum. So please, quit the hypocrisy.
Daftpanzer
canonically ambiguous
*enters fallout bunker and secures the hatch tightly*
EDIT: I do sincerely apologise to all concerned for the irrelevance of this post.How childish of me (a very subtle reference to the ongoing argument 
).
EDIT: I do sincerely apologise to all concerned for the irrelevance of this post.
).
Moderator Action: Let's tone it down and stick to games and stay away from people.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
This is actually kinda why I stopped working on DaNES II.
Daftpanzer
canonically ambiguous
So what would constitute a 'worthy' audience? And why are you posting here at all?
This is why:
[19:45] dachspmg: So I have formally decided
[19:45] dachspmg: that all I am going to do in the NES subforum
[19:45] dachspmg: is troll
[19:45] dachspmg: yeah
[19:45] dachspmg: it's an exciting and new chapter
Now, when you say restart of DaftNESII, do you mean completely from scratch?
Because if you can't trust people who have let their NESes fail right from the start over the past two years, who can you trust?
Playing in character for a start would be nice. Not creating an environment in which realism is to be shunned would also be nice too.
Because I'm not interested in only modding? You can play in NESes too, last time I checked.Daftpanzer said:
Daftpanzer
canonically ambiguous
Dachs makes kittens cry 
@Azale nono, I mean a new thread with revised rules and stats, but starting from current position+unfinished update. Controversially, possibly, there'd also be some small edits to world history and the world map.
Azale said:
@Azale nono, I mean a new thread with revised rules and stats, but starting from current position+unfinished update. Controversially, possibly, there'd also be some small edits to world history and the world map.
North King
blech
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2004
- Messages
- 18,165
I think you can still run your NESes, Dachs, Symph, et al., and get a decent crowd. I've managed to get a fairly serious crowd playing in N3S III. However, I acknowledge there are a couple reasons for that: 1) the ridiculous update schedule weeds out anyone without a lot of patience, and 2) I can weed out joke nations by simply killing them. People starting at a more advanced point than 2), such as the 1800s, would not have the same options, and 1) seems to annoy people.
- Status
Similar threads
