While We Wait: Writer's Block & Other Lame Excuses

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Actually its original meaning was "prostitute," or "strumpet." The point remains that the genre convention is "Ye Olde Tyme Libertarian Aeronautical Adventure" and the entire label is a farce and the vast bulk of work in the genre is pablum. Yes, it can become whatever, that has no bearing on what it is and what it is commonly perceived as, which is gears glued to hats and airships.

I could write a story I claimed was Steampunk that was about an orphaned Igbo girl from Nigeria who rises up to become a warlord by bombing British airships and who advocates for an Anarcho-Communist Free Black State. I would technically be correct; I guarantee you it would not be popularly received by the people who enjoy "Steampunk." That is my entire premise.

In the same way, I could write a Noir film about gardening. It might have all the lighting elements to qualify stylistically as Noir, but it would not be received as Noir by the majority. Tropes do in fact exist for a reason, and they do in fact shape popular perception of whether something is in a genre or isn't. The people who are into Steampunk are mostly into it because they have a fetish for Victorian Era stuff because it's "cool" but they don't want the problematic elements that come from actual Victorian Era stuff.
 
Symphony D. said:
Actually its original meaning was "prostitute," or "strumpet."
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The original application of punk to literature genres revolves around punk teenagers, or the marginalized/alienated. Try again.

The point remains that the genre convention is "Ye Olde Tyme Libertarian Aeronautical Adventure" and the entire label is a farce and the vast bulk of work in the genre is pablum. Yes, it can become whatever, that has no bearing on what it is and what it is commonly perceived as, which is gears glued to hats and airships.
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Just because something is right now does not mean it is forever. To assume these people who dig into steampunk even understand the historical time period or social issues of is a step too far, IMO. They just want to look at cool steampunk tech. (I much prefer dieselpunk myself).

I could write a story I claimed was Steampunk that was about an orphaned Igbo girl from Nigeria who rises up to become a warlord by bombing British airships and who advocates for an Anarcho-Communist Free Black State. I would technically be correct; I guarantee you it would not be popularly received by the people who enjoy "Steampunk." That is my entire premise.
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You could and should. Plenty of people would read this. This is exactly the type of thing on the leading edge of the genres you're insulting, in fact, and a good solid push would break the barrier. Just because something isn't opened up to minorities or alternative politics, or whatever, doesn't mean you can't do it.

Don't write for the readers. Write for yourself. If you don't like the way punk derivative sub-genres are headed, do something about it. Whining on a forum isn't getting the manuscript written, man.

In the same way, I could write a Noir film about gardening. It might have all the lighting elements to qualify stylistically as Noir, but it would not be received as Noir by the majority. Tropes do in fact exist for a reason, and they do in fact shape popular perception of whether something is in a genre or isn't. The people who are into Steampunk are mostly into it because they have a fetish for Victorian Era stuff because it's "cool" but they don't want the problematic elements that come from actual Victorian Era stuff.
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Then use the things they like, but use them to your own ends. Just because tropes set the theme doesn't mean the tropes have to remain solid, unchanging, unyielding things. In fact, some of the more popular authors since 2000 have been doing exactly that with traditional tropes: subversion.

Steampunk isn't a large enough genre to have the types of development others have. There probably aren't five well-known steampunk authors in the world, honestly. Steampunk is niche. Just because some writers write to the market doesn't mean a good writer has to or should ever do so.

You're a creative writer, Symphony. Stop whining about the art and go change it. :p
 
Luckymoose said:
Just because something is right now does not mean it is forever. To assume these people who dig into steampunk even understand the historical time period or social issues of is a step too far, IMO. They just want to look at cool steampunk tech. (I much prefer dieselpunk myself).
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I think fiction has a responsibility to engage with issues as much as it does to tell a good story and I think that treating an audience as a bunch of idiots is talking down to them. On the other hand, we live in a world where Avatar made $2.7 billion at the box office and people pay Jeph Jacques $109,000 a year on Patreon to write Questionable Content, so I am indeed clearly in the minority.

You could and should. Plenty of people would read this. This is exactly the type of thing on the leading edge of the genres you're insulting, in fact, and a good solid push would break the barrier. Just because something isn't opened up to minorities or alternative politics, or whatever, doesn't mean you can't do it.

Don't write for the readers. Write for yourself. If you don't like the way punk derivative sub-genres are headed, do something about it. Whining on a forum isn't getting the manuscript written, man.
[...]
You're a creative writer, Symphony. Stop whining about the art and go change it.
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These are contradictory pieces of advice as far as I'm concerned; writing something like that would be purely an exercise in spite. At any rate, it's easier to write a few paragraphs slamming someone else's taste than ~70,000 words to fix something I don't like anyway. (Steampunk technology is also dumb. Dumb as hell.)
 
Symphony D. said:
I think fiction has a responsibility to engage with issues as much as it does to tell a good story and I think that treating an audience as a bunch of idiots is talking down to them. On the other hand, we live in a world where Avatar made $2.7 billion at the box office and people pay Jeph Jacques $109,000 a year on Patreon to write Questionable Content, so I am indeed clearly in the minority.
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I agree, for what it's worth.


These are contradictory pieces of advice as far as I'm concerned; writing something like that would be purely an exercise in spite. At any rate, it's easier to write a few paragraphs slamming someone else's taste than ~70,000 words to fix something I don't like anyway. (Steampunk technology is also dumb. Dumb as hell.)
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You gotta write something, or your voice will never matter anyway. So it might as well be a practice 70k steampunk subversion of tropes. Writing is writing. You gotta write to be a writer. ;)
 
http://www.economist.com/blogs/schu...o?fsrc=scn/tw_ec/startup_myths_and_obsessions

love me some mazzucato

so I guess the state wasn't powerful enough to reign in the power of these private firms, who have now captured enough political influence to direct money and privileges to themselves while they throw away the ladder other firms could crawl up by dissembling the state-innovative apparatus from the inside.

Startup leeches notice this shift and beg for more of the decreasing amount of R&D money so they can be super galt and innovative like Apple or whatever, and it's mostly a waste for the reasons Mazzucato lists (poor outcomes + expensive opportunity costs). Then in 100 years we all speak Chinese.

fair takeaways? :p

It seems like the best capitalist system is the one with the strongest state and largest, most engaged firms. And then we hope they don't crush human society, so we get more 60s USA or 70s Japan and less 40s Stalinist Russia. And then we hope that decreasing rates of profit from overproduction/overcapacity don't lead to a business-led reaction that hollows out the state, as we've seen since the early 70s. So yea, we hope the state stays as strong as possible, and that's in the best case scenario of capitalism.
 
what do you mean literally every technology of importance since wwii was either government backed or government developed omg market distortions they put a killswitch in everything

Azale said:
Then in 100 years we all speak Chinese.
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lol no
 
That is a good link.
 
It's inconceivable to me that he's not somehow related to Tom Friedman. "...Friedman!" should obviously be the "...Newman!" of IR.
 
Symphony D. said:
I could write a story I claimed was Steampunk that was about an orphaned Igbo girl from Nigeria who rises up to become a warlord by bombing British airships and who advocates for an Anarcho-Communist Free Black State. I would technically be correct; I guarantee you it would not be popularly received by the people who enjoy "Steampunk." That is my entire premise.
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I would read it.
 
Symphony D. said:
I could write a story I claimed was Steampunk that was about an orphaned Igbo girl from Nigeria who rises up to become a warlord by bombing British airships and who advocates for an Anarcho-Communist Free Black State. I would technically be correct; I guarantee you it would not be popularly received by the people who enjoy "Steampunk." That is my entire premise.
Click to expand...

Have you played Inkle's 80 Days yet, Symph?
 
Never heard of it until you just now mentioned it.
 
Friedman and Rand are corrupting our young. This is the great moral crusade of our times.
 
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