Who should represent the Native Americans in civ 6?

[Verified_Confection_Being]

I don't foresee the inclusion of the Mississippians/Cahokians. Why? Because they were already on sharp decline by the time the first Spaniards moved through the area and were gone by the time the Spaniards got back. We don't know enough about them to make them a viable civilization; it would be like trying to include the Halstatt culture as a civilization. Now, one of the Mississippians descendants like the Cherokee, Chickasaw, Creek, or Natchez could work.

We know enough about them to create our unique attributes though, an that's the minimum requirement. The only thing realistically standing in there way is the lack of a named leader that I know of. That is solvable as well though. Carthage has a mythical leader, Spain has a leader from 200 years before Spain existed. Greece uses a Macedonian (I know similar culture, but stick with me here...)

Why not have a Mississippian civ with a unique and a leader from a later era to tie it together through history? More likely we'll have a Cherokee or other modern civ with Mississippian attributes, but that would make me a little sad that they've not got the credit they deserve

I am not sure what you meant by this (bolded part), but I live in New Mexico and have a pretty good understanding of the pueblos and their culture. All the rest I agree with completely.

By that I meant that firaxis have been told by the pueblos that they do not want to be represented in this game. I don't think they would feel great if firaxis used a civilization who they claim descendancy from instead. It amounts to the same thing, but with potentially even more insult layered on top by in their eyes disrespecting not just their culture but also their dead

 

[ehecatzin]

I am not sure what you meant by this (bolded part), but I live in New Mexico and have a pretty good understanding of the pueblos and their culture. All the rest I agree with completely.

I think he's refering to the Pueblo civ led by Popé that was going to be included on Civ5,(and the concept art of Popé was awesome) however the Pueblo did show concern when Firaxis aproached them on Popé and their language being used on a videogame, so Firaxis backed down and added the Shoshone instead.

 

[Civciv5]

I'd like to see the "blob civ" again!

This time under the leadership of "Grand Chieftess" Sacagawea (considering we might be getting Gandhi again).

 

[Mobfire]

Except "the Pueblo" just describes multiple peoples who live in similar styles of dwellings. There's multiple cultural and linguistic groups that could be included and not succumbing to the problem of blob civ design.

The Puebloans were united by Popé against the Spanish, and had arguably the most successful native revolt against Europeans in all of North America.

For what it's worth, I would choose..
- The Mississippians
- The Sioux
- The Puebloans
- The Iroquois
- The Salish

That would offer up a nice bit of diversity in both location and culture. It would also include two of the more 'civilized' North American tribes, who actually settled down into cities in Pre-Columbian times (Mississippians, Puebloans).

 

[ldvhl]

The Puebloans were united by Popé against the Spanish, and had arguably the most successful native revolt against Europeans in all of North America.

Except he only temporarily brought together some of the Puebloan peoples, not all. And the unity did not last after the rebellion.

 

[Birdjaguar]

By that I meant that firaxis have been told by the pueblos that they do not want to be represented in this game. I don't think they would feel great if firaxis used a civilization who they claim descendancy from instead. It amounts to the same thing, but with potentially even more insult layered on top by in their eyes disrespecting not just their culture but also their dead

I think he's refering to the Pueblo civ led by Popé that was going to be included on Civ5,(and the concept art of Popé was awesome) however the Pueblo did show concern when Firaxis aproached them on Popé and their language being used on a videogame, so Firaxis backed down and added the Shoshone instead.

There are 19 pueblos in NM and i would bet money they wouldn't have all agreed on anything. That is precisely why the Anasazi would be a great choice. They are all dead any no agreement is needed and They were much cooler than any of the current pueblos.

IIRC there are at least three pueblo languages that are distinctive, maybe five. Different language groups are represented through Keres, Tiwa, Towa, Zuni, Hopi etc. The pueblos are fussy about their languages and don't like non natives to speak them. I'd be curious as to which tribes they contacted.

 

[adcarrymaokai]

They all can be in the game, tbh.

 

[ehecatzin]

There are 19 pueblos in NM and i would bet money they wouldn't have all agreed on anything. That is precisely why the Anasazi would be a great choice. They are all dead any no agreement is needed and They were much cooler than any of the current pueblos.

IIRC there are at least three pueblo languages that are distinctive, maybe five. Different language groups are represented through Keres, Tiwa, Towa, Zuni, Hopi etc. The pueblos are fussy about their languages and don't like non natives to speak them. I'd be curious as to which tribes they contacted.

I agree in that the Anasazi would be really cool, now I don't know that much about them but who would be the leader?

 

[Zaarin]

We know enough about them to create our unique attributes though, an that's the minimum requirement. The only thing realistically standing in there way is the lack of a named leader that I know of. That is solvable as well though. Carthage has a mythical leader, Spain has a leader from 200 years before Spain existed. Greece uses a Macedonian (I know similar culture, but stick with me here...)

Why not have a Mississippian civ with a unique and a leader from a later era to tie it together through history? More likely we'll have a Cherokee or other modern civ with Mississippian attributes, but that would make me a little sad that they've not got the credit they deserve

We know the names of a few Mississippian leaders--Quigaltam, Casqui, Pacaha, maybe a few others. Unfortunately, we don't know much about any of them to give them much personality in game nor how effective they were as leaders--De Soto was unlikely to give a flattering report of any of them.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I agree in that the Anasazi would be really cool, now I don't know that much about them but who would be the leader?

There aren't any known leaders or any names associated with the Anasazi so in the game the leader would be fictional. A Hopi, Tewa, Keres or tiwa word for leader might have to do.

http://www.legendsofamerica.com/na-ancientpuebloans.html

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Cherokee.

1) One of the biggest and best known Native American tribes - popculture
2) One of the most important and impressive NA tribes - significance
3) Quite distinctive: technological adaptiveness (they were first NA tribe to have their own newspaper, resisted Europeans for a long time and survived to this day as one of the most numerous NA tribes)
4) Fresh - not yet seen in the game.

Though I am personally very fond of Iroquis, so no problem with them instead. Hurons could be fine too.

I'd gladly see Pueblo/Navajo in as they were impressive indeed, the problem is, firaxis already attempted to add them in BNW but tribes didn't agree to be depicted in a video game

I just don't wanna to see such atrocities as Pocahontas or horrible joint "Native American" civ of civ4. I also think Sioux are a bit overrated, similarly to Zulu.

+1 for this. Roman opponents and NA get too much attention in Civ in general, as does Europe overall, but if I had to pick one rep out of this list it'd be Cherokee as it's a strong choice that hasn't been used yet.

 

[Verified_Confection_Being]

There are 19 pueblos in NM and i would bet money they wouldn't have all agreed on anything. That is precisely why the Anasazi would be a great choice. They are all dead any no agreement is needed and They were much cooler than any of the current pueblos.

IIRC there are at least three pueblo languages that are distinctive, maybe five. Different language groups are represented through Keres, Tiwa, Towa, Zuni, Hopi etc. The pueblos are fussy about their languages and don't like non natives to speak them. I'd be curious as to which tribes they contacted.

Teo main problems with the Anasazi remain. First, calling them the Anasazi is a sure fire way to make the pueblo even more uncomfortable, considering it's a Navajo word meaning ancient enemy. It'd be like putting France in the game and calling them the frogs, or calling the Germans the Huns. The general historical consensus these days is to call them ancestral puebloans.

And there lies the second problem. The Pueblo do not see a distinction between themselves and the Anasazi, because they see them as ancestors. Their ancestors have also been deified. So not only would they say an Anasazi civ still represents them, they would say it also disrespects their gods and the name itself is a slur against them.Making the Anasazi in game is never gunna happen while te pueblo maintain they don't want to be in game. Firaxis won't want to cause any problems there.

 

[King William I]

We know the names of a few Mississippian leaders--Quigaltam, Casqui, Pacaha, maybe a few others. Unfortunately, we don't know much about any of them to give them much personality in game nor how effective they were as leaders--De Soto was unlikely to give a flattering report of any of them.

Tuscaloosa works too

 

[seasnake]

Cherokee with Sequoya would be excellent, some kind of boost to their Eureka moments as part of their UA.

Mississippi could be led by Tuscaloosa, we have enough info on him for that.

I would be happy to have multiple Native American Civilizations, but these stand out to me.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Cherokee getting Eureka Moments when they encounter more technologically advanced civs would be kinda cool.

 

[ViterboKnight]

I think it's time for Apaches. Maybe Geronimo?

 

[ldvhl]

Cherokee getting Eureka Moments when they encounter more technologically advanced civs would be kinda cool.

That's a brilliant idea.

 

[Krajzen]

Cherokee getting Eureka Moments when they encounter more technologically advanced civs would be kinda cool.

It is okay idea but it'd be also fairly passive.
I'd prefer Cherokee getting strong science bonus from trade routes with neighbors [who have techs unknown by Che] or something like that.

 

[Nixalo]

Arawak or Taino

'Bout time for a Caribbean civ.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Arawak or Taino

'Bout time for a Caribbean civ.

It would be nice to have a civ that could take advantage of small islands. It seems like those are going to feel pretty marginal with the "unstacked cities". Perhaps they can get more population capacity from work boats and harbors or coastal city centers.