whoknows01 - C3C Training on Monarch - Conq/Dom

[Mach]

Oh I think we're in more agreement than we think. In no particular order...

I agree with pred, let's make the upcoming Chinese war a 'quick hit' war. We'll use our archer strength while it means something to wound China, then we'll get what we can out of them. (I agree, China needs to go before the rider. I hadn't thought of that. )

Meanwhile we start building a horsie army for the English. Lullaby is right, hooking up those horses is a high priority. Personally, I am in absolutely no rush to hook up that iron. Horsemen will do us just fine. We might not need that iron until knights, and if by then we still don't have it in our borders, we can always make a colony. (Building a temple in Tlat is a decent idea, but I agree with pred, we just don't have the time. We need workers more than we need that iron.)

I think horsies are better than swords for us. For the price of two swords we get 3 horsies...resulting in the same offensive power (2*3=3*2). But horsies can retreat, and their 2 movement reduces how much they'll have to defend. IMO that makes horsies superior in most situations. Swords have their place, like in rough terrain, or when you have a bunch of catapults lyring around. But we're not in any of those positions. Also, the English front will be some distance from our core, and horsie reinforcements can arrive twice as fast as swords.

As far as warriors go, I think I agree with Lullaby on this one. We should concentrate on our offensive forces first, but we should also build just enough warriors for mps. Even when we get to republic, we're going to want some warm bodies around, in case of barbs and whatnot. Techno could become a horse-warrior-warrior-settler factory, while Teo becomes a horse-settler factory, or something like that. That way all our settlers get a warrior escort, and our military cities can concentrate on horsies.

Let's see, what else. What to do with CoL? Again I agree with pred, let's not make any alliances. Should we trade CoL with the Byzantines for what we can get (maybe both Math and Philo)? What should we research next? I don't see any techs that we really need at the moment...markets would be nice, but I really don't think we have the time to build any just yet. So I guess we should continue heading for Republic.

I think the time is coming when we'll need a more extensive dotmap...

Culture?? What culture?

 

[Lullaby]

I must admit my former post was not precise enough at some points and wrong at others.

Warriors: build enough of them to free the more valuable units from their mp duties. Don't build hordes of them.

Iron: I agree this is not of high priority. I was thinking ahead. The plan was not meant for the next 10 turns. But I agree that horsemen will do a better job even for the following wars.

In my home games I rarely build swordsmen. I have some upgraded warriors, but as I usually tend do build up until at least early MA and use knights or trebuchets for offense. This is the reason why I need to learn how to wage an offensive war in the AA.

I also *never* built a colony. I almost forgot they exist. The idea to hook up the iron that way is something to be thought about.

Republic at min/bribing for alliances: I was thinking we are going to destroy one civ directly, not take some space then sue for peace. This would have resulted in a longer war.

As for China, we should definitely take them out before the rider. Even if they don't have the resources themselves, they could trade them in. But if the first war is going to be short, England might as well be chosen.

 

[predesad]

those are good points, lullaby.

the target for the war prolly wont be pinpointed until right before the war actually happens, i see a case for either opponent. China to get the lux they stole from us, England to knock them back since they are big and encroaching upon us.

About China trading the resources in, we can prevent that with a war, disrupt their trade routes, in this way their is not necessarily the need to eliminate them before they get to chivalry as long as we undertake the task when they do get there. i say this only to point out we have our options open.

@Mach - Am I missing something, 3 horses = 2 swords, i thought both cost 30 shields to build?

 

[Mach]

Oops, no, you're right. Horsemen are 30 shields. When I looked it up I read the line for chariots... Can you tell I've only been playing this game for a month? So that changes my vague calcs for Techno and Teo...

 

[predesad]

Can you tell I've only been playing this game for a month?

up until you pointed it out, no, i must say you seem to have picked it up rather quickly

is it still whoknows turn?

 

[whoknows888]

Yeah it's my turn. I will play later tonight and post it.

 

[Mach]

who, you are over your 48 again...

 

[whoknows888]

Sorry Mach. I have the game, and halfway done, just got some homework. Will post in the morning. Sorry again.

 

[predesad]

Sorry Mach. I have the game, and halfway done, just got some homework. Will post in the morning. Sorry again.

sorry if I am outta line here whoknows, but it is now 96 hours, i think one of 3 things are necessary:

1) change the 48 hour limit
2) post what you got and let the next player have it
3) skip your turn

& also, should we assume TCS is still a skip or give him time to see if he gets it next or perhaps lullaby should be just inserted between who & TCS so we don;t have to even consider it for the time being.

 

[whoknows888]

So sorry about this guys.

Log book:

Preturn: Looks good, but why no road to Teno? English attempt to blackmail us and I refused.
Turn 1 1475 bc: Teno - archer->settler. Forget the preturn? Archer on forest to hills. Begin preparation for a Chinese war. Tlaxcala founded. Tlax ->warrior.
Turn 2 1450 bc: Byzantines have mathematics, philosophy, and map making. Nothing but boredom.
Turn 3 1425 bc: CoL learned. CoL ->Lit. Teo barracks -> worker. We have a strong army compared to Eng and Chinese.
Turn 4 1400 bc: not much
Turn 5 1375 bc: Teo worker -> worker. Not much, but exploring. Traded CoL to Byz. for phil and poly.
Turn 6 1350 bc: Tlax warrior -> barracks. Teno archer -> archer.
Turn 7 1325 bc: Teo worker -> archer. Building more roads. Worker just built is heading towards the horses.
Turn 8 1300 bc: Texcoco barracks -> worker. There is an undefended Chinese settler. What to do?!? Calixtlahuaca founded and builds warrior in tex. Adjusted sci slider to 60%.
Turn 9 1275 bc: Tex worker->archer. Nothing really. Found barbs above Byz.
Turn 10 1250 bc: I will leave this turn free to next person. I wasn't paying attn. and had contact with the Vikings shortly.

 

[whoknows888]

Here is the save. I didn't manage to get a screen. Later guys have homework to do.

 

[whoknows888]

Up Lullaby
On deck TCS1

 

[predesad]

i havent viewed the save, but it sounds pretty good as if things are pretty well right on track as planned

no real news on how long TCS is going to be away and he hasn't checked in since joining the game so I am anticipating playing after lullaby, we'll see

just remember my warning, if you don't go to war with somebody, i will

lullaby, i don't remember exactly when you jumped in, but previous discussion we planned to use techno as an 8 turn archer, archer, settler factory; and tlat (i think) we wanted to set up as a worker factory if you want to keep that in mind

 

[Mach]

Good turns. It looks like you missed northern grey dot, but still it hit the river and got the horses, so it'll be ok...

Yeah, so it looks like we're up to 9 archers (& 1 more next turn), 2 spears, and 2 warriors in our home. So lullaby, if you feel like starting the Quick Hit war on the Chinese, go right ahead. They look like they're gonna found a city right by our border, so it's nice and convienient. Pretty soon we'll be switching production to horsemen.

 

[predesad]

Good turns. It looks like you missed northern grey dot, but still it hit the river and got the horses, so it'll be ok...

Yeah, so it looks like we're up to 9 archers (& 1 more next turn), 2 spears, and 2 warriors in our home. So lullaby, if you feel like starting the Quick Hit war on the Chinese, go right ahead. They look like they're gonna found a city right by our border, so it's nice and convienient. Pretty soon we'll be switching production to horsemen.

just please don't start it to about turn 5-6 and dont get peace so I can get a shot at 'em

no seriously, do what you think is best even if it means peace before i get a turn, but we have not discussed rep, i think it is important to keep a good rep

 

[Lullaby]

Will get it and hopefull play it tonight (CET, so you have to wait a few hours).

First question: whom to hit.

Second question: I'd like to build a couple of warriors, so that the home cities won't bw undefended while the army is on vacation. One for each city, two for the capital.

Third question: keep cities or raze them? Of course we will need more settlers with the second option.

 

[predesad]

about the warriors, we have to make sure to have "something" in the cities for mp anyway so that is a good idea, i think we might have some warriors built for this already.

whom to hit: preferrably the English or Chinese, see next point

raze or keep: prolly keep, culture difference should not be much at this point, flipping chances should be low, pick out a city or two which will benefit us, that could be the chinese silks. IMO, if you raze cities take along a settler or 2 to replce that city

I really see a case for either civ: quick hit English, then wipe out Chinese, then back to weakened English, or quick hit Chinese to weaken them for the big hit later.

 

[whoknows888]

To me it does not matter. During my turns I tried to provide enough workers for us. If we could get Lit also, we could get another 2 techs, and mathematics could be crucial for us.

Mach sorry about the Northern gray dot, I forgot where to put the settler so I found a BG and placed him right there.

I think we need more warriors and archers before we go to war. The reason for this is that if we go, any other civ can attack our cities. Also if the Chinese do have lots of spearman it will be hard for us to kill them off. I say we wait a few more turns to see if we can get about 15 or so archers, 7 warriors, and have the 2 spearmen. The Chinese don't have very many productive cities (the one with silks) so it shouldn't be too bad.

We will keep the 8 turn settler going, and if you want to keep the cities because of the position it is located it is fine, but also hopefully we will have a settler or two to come right behind to settle. I don't think we should head for Repub. because we don't have enough worked tiles, and wouldn't get the cash from it.

 

[Mach]

Mach sorry about the Northern gray dot, I forgot where to put the settler so I found a BG and placed him right there.

No need to apologize, the city will be fine there, just a bit tightly spaced. The other city you placed looks to be right where I would have put it. BTW, I often have the thread open in a browser while I play, so I can alt-tab to it in case I need to reread something.

I really see a case for either civ

I agree. I just figure China because they're closer, and we are attacking with slow archers after all. It may take ~10 turns just to reach the English. As far as razing/keeping cities, keep what we can. But watch, some might autoraze, and we'll need to replace...

15 or so archers, 7 warriors, and have the 2 spearmen

That sounds optimal to me, although I think we can start with a bit less. We should have just about this at the end of lullaby's turns, hopefully. So lullaby, go ahead and build a few warriors, you got my vote. And it couldn't hurt to keep a couple of archers at home when our task force takes off, in case we need some offensive defense.

 

[Lullaby]

Preturn:
changed Texcoco production to Warrior
Lowered lux tax to 10%, raised science to 70%
Moved archers from Tenoch and Texcoco on their way to Tlaxcala
Workers building roads
Lucky on its way to Tenoch
Bob west, west, meets russian settler/Spearman
Fred west, west

There is a chinese settler/warrior on its way up north, probably moving to the area with the two game.

IBT: nothing

Turn 1, 1225 BC:
Tenoch Settler -> Warrior
Generally moving troops to Tlaxcala
Some worker action
Bob west, north, hits expanded russian borders
Fred sw, sw, detects
Lowered lux tax to 0%

Stopped here. There is one worker and the new settler to move.

The question is what to do with the settler. If we want to build a new city, I suggest moving towards England, to the area with the second wheat on the flood plain and the two gold mountains. Should provide quite some cash.