Why All The Hate?

[Commodore]

It's an intrusive DRM that tramples your rights.
If that's not enough to justify the hate for someone, then he's just another example of short-sighter people who don't look past superficial conviencen, or he's been brainwashed by the industry into believing they have all rights and he's just a peon to be abused.
Both cases aren't really something to be proud of.

That is a patently false argument and you know it. Tell me exactly how Steam violates your rights and maybe I'll actually entertain your argument. Not to mention gamers never had any "rights" to play the games they buy. Read your EULA that has existed in every game since the industry began. You are purchasing the privlege to play the game, a privlige the copyright holder can take away for any reason at any time. So don't pretend like gaming used to be a utopia of freedom that Steam crushed. It's just simply not true.

As for the idea that it's intrusive, I don't see what you're talking about at all. Never once has Steam interfered with my ability to play games. It also never changed anything on my computer without me okaying it. The only monitoring Steam does, is monitoring of what games I purchase through Steam so they can recommend future purchases, which I don't mind because they recommend some games that I might have otherwise missed.

So I should be mad at Paradox because the "offline mode" and "disable automatic updates" in Steam don't work as advertised?

I've compared PC gaming to console gaming as craft beers against your Bud Light/Miller/Coors before. I care little if gamers wanting to play FPS decide to buy them on consoles over PCs, thus swaying a large market share to the consoles. They can have the watered-down tasteless stuff. PC gaming has always been the home of niche markets that simply will not disappear unless personal computers themselves disappear (highly unlikely). Games like those that Paradox or AGEod produces don't work well with console controls--you can't put them on a console and retain the same quality as the PC version. I'd also say you can't put Civ4 on a console. Fake edit: don't bring up Revolutions, it is a pathetic substitute and proves my point.

I also think you underestimate the modding community. A small community may make them, but even mainstream games like (yes, I know I'm reaching back a little here) Rome: Total War or Battlefield 1942 have very successful mods out that a sizable fraction of the community plays.

I'm saying you should be mad at Paradox for releasing their games on Steam and then not implementing an update system that is compatible with Steam. If they want to have their own unique way of updating a game, then they shouldn't release them on Steam.

You do raise valid points on the PC/console issue. I agree with just about every point you raised. My main concern though, is that I don't want to see PC gaming fall behind again like it did a decade ago. Sure, PC gaming will never die, but it can fade into irrelevence in the gaming industry. I remember, as I'm sure you do, those days when almost nobody cared about PC gaming. Yes, there were excellent games made, but their sales weren't anywhere close to what they should have been, because none of the gaming media would cover them. In fact, a lot of PC's signature franchises either died or went on a very long hiatus due to what was perceived as poor sales. Steam changed all that and now PC gaming gets a lot more media coverage (though still not as much as consoles) and those franchises that were put on hold have been revived and we see almost yearly releases for some of them.

PC gaming is mainstream again, and despite some people's reservations about the evils of going mainstream, I think it will save the industry from irrelevence and keep PC gaming a strong and vibrant part of the gaming industry as a whole.

 

[Akka]

That is a patently false argument and you know it. Tell me exactly how Steam violates your rights and maybe I'll actually entertain your argument. Not to mention gamers never had any "rights" to play the games they buy. Read your EULA that has existed in every game since the industry began. You are purchasing the privlege to play the game, a privlige the copyright holder can take away for any reason at any time. So don't pretend like gaming used to be a utopia of freedom that Steam crushed. It's just simply not true.

Welcome to the second group I described.

 

[Thrawn]

It would be nice if you would actually counter his points, instead of pretty much labelling everyone that uses steam as brainwashed morons.

I honestly don't see how Steam is an intrusive DRM in any way, I never even notice it's running most of the time, and I've never had any problems running any games through it.

 

[Commodore]

It would be nice if you would actually counter his points, instead of pretty much labelling everyone that uses steam as brainwashed morons.

I honestly don't see how Steam is an intrusive DRM in any way, I never even notice it's running most of the time, and I've never had any problems running any games through it.

But if he did that then it would expose just how weak his argument is. Labeling everyone who doesn't agree with him as brainwashed morons means he eliminates all room for rational discussion while still maintaining in his own mind that he is correct. I'm starting to suspect he is just a troll anyway.

 

[Chibiabos]

Yeah, but I don't see why that's a problem for people. It's not like you have to pay a monthly fee to use Steam. If you had to pay for it then I could see people being upset.

Money is not the only price paid.

There is a lot of "free" software that costs no dollars, but is nonetheless costly in terms of what it installs and runs constantly on your computer.

 

[Maniacal]

Yeah, those sales can really rape your wallet.

 

[Akka]

It would be nice if you would actually counter his points, instead of pretty much labelling everyone that uses steam as brainwashed morons.

The pro-vs-anti-Steam debate has raged for monthes when Civ5 was released. If someone is still going to defend the idea of a mandatory spyware needed to run a game you bought, a contract saying that what you bought can be removed at will if they feel like it, a required Internet connection to install a single player game and the like, then it's pretty obvious they already dissed over the arguments made previously.

And frankly, you expect me to answer seriously to someone who say straight-faced that someone has no right to play the game he bought ? Hello ?

 

[Maniacal]

And frankly, you expect me to answer seriously to someone who say straight-faced that someone has no right to play the game he bought ? Hello ?

Yes, actually, I do. And frankly I don't think Steam is strict enough with the DRM either. (I'm kidding, of course)

 

[CivCube]

It's not just videogames. The problem facing every entertainment creator is that their work can be consumed so quickly. Why else are we seeing e-book readers being pushed so heavily? The authors want to maintain iron-grip sales because their sales flare up and die so fast. The book publishing industry is fast becoming consolidated (read: shrinking) as a result. In ten years, we likely won't see the likes of Harper-Collins or Barnes & Noble in quite the same way again, and that's because folks like me rarely read the same book, watch the same movie, or play the same game more than once or twice. Steam at least provides developers a way to have intermittent spikes in purchases with their summer and winter sales. So as far as DRM goes, I can't exactly blame publishers for wanting to survive. Products in this industry are just consumed too fast for there to be any long-term strategy.

 

[mayor]

I have another reason for the hate:

I want to play Empire:Total War which can only be played via Steam. However I seem to have internet trouble which prevent me from loggin in.
Now you would say that I should use the Offline mode. Well every time I try that it says that it can't because there is something wrong with the internetconnection.......

This is exactly the reason Steam is wrong. With it you are dependent on a external program which can prevent you from playing a game you bought legally....

EDIT: at this moment I do have internet connection but Steam says I don't so I still can't play.....

 

[Oruc]

I don't like how I have to go through the steam client to play my games, even offline.
Buying games in stores and even other online download sites have games that use steam, I bought M&B warband from Game not realising it had to use steam, until I got sick of it and bought the non-steam version from D2D.
Why don't they just let you use it for updates like Origin and whats with the social crap? what is this facebook?

 

[Chibiabos]

(...)
As for the idea that it's intrusive, I don't see what you're talking about at all. Never once has Steam interfered with my ability to play games. It also never changed anything on my computer without me okaying it. The only monitoring Steam does, is monitoring of what games I purchase through Steam so they can recommend future purchases, which I don't mind because they recommend some games that I might have otherwise missed.
(...)

It has interfered with a lot of people. When the newest iteration of Modern Warfare or some other over-hyped game comes out on Steam, neither of my Steam Games (Civ V and Skyrim) are playable; this has happened several times. I've heard, and have every reason to believe, horror stories of steam locking out entirely the accounts of some users, rendering every single game they bought and paid for unusable without a refund.

With other digital download services, once I buy a game, its mine and I can play it at will without obtrusive software constantly running in the background.

If you don't see what people are talking about at all with this described to you, I'm not sure what language someone needs to speak to communicate with you that would enable you to comprehend. Not everyone likes being treated like a criminal by the legitimate buyers of games being harrassed and harrangued with DRM. I hope publishers like Stardock continue thumbing their nose at the "stalk the paying customers with DRM while the p1r3t3s circumvent it and aren't bothered by it" fad by publishing DRM-free software. Someone copying a game does not make a game more expensive, but the millions of dollars spent developing DRM and jamming it into games that doesn't do its job of stopping piracy (but does get in the way of legitimate customers) does add to the cost of games. Yeah, its lame people copy and distribute commercial games for free, but its lamer to be treated as a criminal when you are a paying customer.

I am sickened by all the software constantly running in the background and this trend, the past several years, that everything you install needs to run all the time. My quad core with 4 GB of RAM has a lot of clock cycles, memory and network access being stolen by the likes of Steam running, Adobe and its bloatware running and updating constantly even though I only read a .PDF maybe once per week, etc.

Some people do not like this crap, and I while I regret that you cannot comprehend why, that does not invalidate the reasons.

 

[croxis]

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

 

[Akka]

Yes, actually, I do. And frankly I don't think Steam is strict enough with the DRM either.

I'll do it as soon as you prove me that I have no right to read the books I bought.

And people wonder why I lump pro-Steam people in "brainwashed masses" (to stay polite) ?

 

[Maniacal]

With other digital download services, once I buy a game, its mine and I can play it at will without obtrusive software constantly running in the background.

Unless you buy it off of Origin, Green Man Gaming, Impulse or it has its own DRM. So quite often it really isn't.

Not everyone likes being treated like a criminal by the legitimate buyers of games being harrassed and harrangued with DRM. I hope publishers like Stardock continue thumbing their nose at the "stalk the paying customers with DRM while the p1r3t3s circumvent it and aren't bothered by it" fad by publishing DRM-free software. Someone copying a game does not make a game more expensive, but the millions of dollars spent developing DRM and jamming it into games that doesn't do its job of stopping piracy (but does get in the way of legitimate customers) does add to the cost of games. Yeah, its lame people copy and distribute commercial games for free, but its lamer to be treated as a criminal when you are a paying customer.

It is unfortunate the CEOs and shareholders don't share the same view point, because they are usually the ones responsible for demanding DRM. Everyone knows it doesn't stop piracy, but clearly that hasn't stopped most publishers them trying more types of DRM. Strardock isn't the best example, since they never really followed their own "gamers bill of rights" very well. Besides a sometimes malfunctioning offline mode, Steam hasn't prevented me from playing my games or treated me like a criminal.

I am sickened by all the software constantly running in the background and this trend, the past several years, that everything you install needs to run all the time. My quad core with 4 GB of RAM has a lot of clock cycles, memory and network access being stolen by the likes of Steam running, Adobe and its bloatware running and updating constantly even though I only read a .PDF maybe once per week, etc.

Steam barely uses any real amount of resources on your computer and should have no effect upon its performance (it would make a terrible gaming client if it did). As for Adobe, they have always sucked and there are several free (and much better) alternatives, like Sumatra PDF. As well as ways to turn off constant updates for various things (sometimes it is as simple as going in the "Options" menu). If you have too much software that is alwasy running processes that is your own fault.

Some people do not like this crap, and I while I regret that you cannot comprehend why, that does not invalidate the reasons.

Because most people don't experience any major problems since the early bumpy days.

I don't like how I have to go through the steam client to play my games, even offline.
Buying games in stores and even other online download sites have games that use steam, I bought M&B warband from Game not realising it had to use steam, until I got sick of it and bought the non-steam version from D2D.

While I am glad you gave more money to Taleworlds, you can use any of the keys with the versions of M&B available directly from Taleworld's website, which don't need Steam.

Why don't they just let you use it for updates like Origin and whats with the social crap? what is this facebook?

Not only does Origin have most of the same social features that Steam does, the in-game overlay and chat system in Steam is incredibly useful for more than just talking to friends as it greatly increases communication for gaming groups (ie clans) and events. While Origin's profile system is kind of lame, neither of them are "like facebook" anymore than X-Fire or MSN Messenger used to be.

The only thing that is like Facebook is Battlelog for BF3, which actually works quite well and the similarities in its design to Facebook make sense because it lowers the learning curve and works better than FB most of the time.

 

[Commodore]

I'll do it as soon as you prove me that I have no right to read the books I bought.

And people wonder why I lump pro-Steam people in "brainwashed masses" (to stay polite) ?

And what you don't seem to comprehend is the fact that when you purchase a piece of software, you DO NOT own the software. You are purchasing a license to use the software. That software also comes with a terms of use agreement that you give consent to just by purchasing the software.

Read the EULA that comes with every single piece of software you have ever purchasedand you will see that you really don't have any right to the software. The EULA outlines in very specific language what are considered authorized uses for that software. If you go beyond the authorized uses for the software, the IP holder has the right to deny you use of the software without giving you a refund. Also, depending on the severity of the terms of use violation, they can even take legal action against you. The EULA also usually includes a clause stating that the IP holder can terminate your license to the software at any moment without notifying you.

Oh and guess what? All of this terms of use and EULA stuff exsited long before Steam came around. Steam just made it easier for companies to enforce the EULA. If you don't want to agree to the terms of use, then don't purchase the game.

It has interfered with a lot of people. When the newest iteration of Modern Warfare or some other over-hyped game comes out on Steam, neither of my Steam Games (Civ V and Skyrim) are playable; this has happened several times. I've heard, and have every reason to believe, horror stories of steam locking out entirely the accounts of some users, rendering every single game they bought and paid for unusable without a refund.

With other digital download services, once I buy a game, its mine and I can play it at will without obtrusive software constantly running in the background.

If you don't see what people are talking about at all with this described to you, I'm not sure what language someone needs to speak to communicate with you that would enable you to comprehend. Not everyone likes being treated like a criminal by the legitimate buyers of games being harrassed and harrangued with DRM. I hope publishers like Stardock continue thumbing their nose at the "stalk the paying customers with DRM while the p1r3t3s circumvent it and aren't bothered by it" fad by publishing DRM-free software. Someone copying a game does not make a game more expensive, but the millions of dollars spent developing DRM and jamming it into games that doesn't do its job of stopping piracy (but does get in the way of legitimate customers) does add to the cost of games. Yeah, its lame people copy and distribute commercial games for free, but its lamer to be treated as a criminal when you are a paying customer.

I am sickened by all the software constantly running in the background and this trend, the past several years, that everything you install needs to run all the time. My quad core with 4 GB of RAM has a lot of clock cycles, memory and network access being stolen by the likes of Steam running, Adobe and its bloatware running and updating constantly even though I only read a .PDF maybe once per week, etc.

Some people do not like this crap, and I while I regret that you cannot comprehend why, that does not invalidate the reasons.

My point, is that I nor anyone I know has ever felt like they were treated like a criminal by any digital download service. I nor anyone I know have ever had problems playing the games we purchase, even in offline mode. So until I or the people I know start experience issues, I'm going to take all these horror stories with a grain of salt.

Steam has never denied me access to games, nor has it ever slowed down my system and I have a Dual core with 4 GB RAM. And again, I don't know why you have all those programs running all the time (you did say they run ALL the time). The only things I have running right now are Steam, Impulse, and my anti-virus software. Adobe does not run constantly and I can view PDFs just fine. Every piece of software on your computer is under your control, so if it is running all the time and slowing your system down, it's because you let it. Right now I could shutdown Steam and it would cause no issues whatsoever.

In fact to prove my point I will go purchase Civ5 right now and report back here how it works with Steam. I'll even post screenshots just to prove I'm not BSing you. I predict I will have no problems with it.

 

[Commodore]

Okay so I tried Civ5 in offline mode since people said they were having problems with Civ5 and Steam. Guess what? It worked perfectly fine and I have the images to prove it:

1. I have finished installing Civ5 through Steam.



2. I have completely logged out of Steam.



3. I then turned off my internet to simulate loss of connection.



4. I then try to start Civ 5 and this is the message I get.



5. I click "Start In Offline Mode" and it starts just fine without asking me to login (which some on here have insisted Steam asks them to do)



6. I go to my Library and click on "Play Game" for Civ5 while still in offline mode.



7. I am now about to start the game.



8. Wait...What!? You mean the game actually started through Steam WITHOUT an internet connection? Surely this can't be true!



I guarentee I can do the same thing with any game offered by Steam with the exact same results every single time.

So tell me: How is Steam invading my privacy when I'm not even connected to the internet? Also, why are some people not able to play in offline mode while the vast majority are able to? Maybe, just maybe, the problem lies with the user and not Steam. Perhaps the people experiencing the issues have something on their computers that is interfering with the Steam client and preventing offline functionality. If that is the case then Steam cannot be blamed for offline mode not working.

But I'm sure the haters out there will find some way to dismiss this little demonstration as a fluke or the exception to the rule when clearly any technical issues that may pop up are the true exception.

EDIT: Oh and by the way: I was able to go on Steam, purchase download and install Civ5, conduct the test, take screenshots, post those images on an image sharing site, and write this post in under 2 hours. If that is not a testament to the convienence of Steam and other digital distributors, then I don't know what is.

 

[Disgustipated]

Did you only buy Civ5 to prove this point and make this post? That seems strange. Or were you planning on buying it anyways?

My internet was acting up yesterday, so I couldn't play an MMO, but I did play Fallout: New Vegas (with steam of course).

 

[Akka]

And what you don't seem to comprehend is the fact that when you purchase a piece of software, you DO NOT own the software. You are purchasing a license to use the software.

Which means that I have a RIGHT to use the software I paid for, and as such the whole "we can terminate your use of the software at any moment" is abusive. Thanks for proving my point and destroying your own.

That software also comes with a terms of use agreement that you give consent to just by purchasing the software.

A good part of the EULA are illegal, and for a lot of the rest, it's not because it's legal that it means it's acceptable or right.

You're just furthering my point (again) about people being brainwashed into sheeps that support their own abuse.

Oh, and as an aside about your ridiculous two-page-long essay on how to play in offline mode, here is what I wrote :
"a required Internet connection to install a single player game and the like"
You can not install Civ5, even with a box bought in a brick-and-mortar store, without validating in on the Net. The fact that you can play in offline mode later is not what I was talking about. Next time you want to be a lesson giver, try to actually read what is written rather than missing the points.

 

[Dell19]

You're just furthering my point (again) about people being brainwashed into sheeps that support their own abuse.

I like this line as its so OTT that its funny. Steam works fine, basically everyone is meant to have an internet connection so I can't honestly see the problem.