Why All The Hate?

[Commodore]

I think part of the hate, especially in these forums, comes from resentment when you get the first game that needs it (in this case probably Civ V for most people), and you have to install this big third-party online app just to play your game. It feels a bit intrusive, and I know I resented it when I first had to install it for Half Life 2 or Team Fortress or whatever it was. It's really only when you start getting a few games on there that you realise its benefits, I think.

Then there's people who hate it because it's also DRM - to which I'd argue it's pretty unobtrusive DRM as far as these things go, and the more publishers feel they can rely on something like that, the less they're likely to add their own painful DRM nonsense (or GFWL, god forbid). In the real world, publishers/shareholders are always going to want some anti-piracy measure, and I think Steam mostly strikes a pretty reasonable compromise (even if its offline mode can be awful flaky). When there's one bit of software that a publisher can just rely on for the selling, downloading, updating, multiplayering, achievementing and DRMing, that makes it an attractive package for going with rather than implementing some other horrible solution.

My major gripe with it is that it replicates the retail pricing for a lot of games - so to buy a new AAA game from Steam from an Australian IP will usually cost $80-100 (it's the same in shops); and the Australian dollar buys about $1.06 US, so we're paying double what everyone else pays for exactly the same thing. You can buy from elsewhere and activate on Steam usually, but it's not always easy and it's a hassle. So I usually wait for sales.
I'd really like Steam to have a serious competitor(s) to hopefully get rid of this crazy price gouging.

But yeah on the other hand there's the convenience and the crazy sales and the indies. Steam's HUGE role in the resurgence of the PC indie makes it hard for me to be angry with it.

Yeah, your issue with the pricing is really the only issue I have with it too. You'd think lower production cost would mean lower prices for the consumer.

You also raise a good point about indie developers. Through digital distribution, indie developers who might not have the resources to produce, package, and distribute 100 million physical copies of their games can get their games out to the masses.

 

[Chukchi Husky]

I never really had any problems with Steam, but there is one complaint I heard from someone. When you buy a game on a disc that needs Steam, it ties the game to the account of one person, which is bad if you're in a family who likes to play the same sort of games. Before he would just let them use the discs whenever they want to play the game on their own computer, but with Steam he can't do that or his account will be banned if for some reason they end up playing the same game at the same time, and he thinks it's wrong to buy the same game several times just so others in his family can play it.

 

[Maniacal]

You're account won't get banned, it just doesn't let you log into the same account online at the same time. Only one can remain online, the others have to go into offline mode. Rubrum does it sometimes with his girlfriend (Skyrim, Dead Island).

 

[mayor]

For me, I don't hate Steam.

I resent the companies that force me to use steam. Like what others have stated previously. I'm not really the mulyiplayer type gamer. I like single games just fine. I want to be able to insert my disc, install the game on my computer and start playing without the hassle of registering online or downloading it. I want to have a disc that I can use on every computer.

I can understand why people like Steam and I can see how it can be beneficial but it isn't for me and that's the sour spot. I am forced to use something I don't want if I want to play a game... that's just not right in my book.

 

[The_J]

Someone obviously hasn't been here while the Civ5 prerelease discussions ^^.

As Skwink stated the whole server going down thing is a non-issue.

Did you see this thread? Direct2Drive fully merging into GameFly and purchases might not transfer.
That proves that it's not a non-issue.

I have to disagree with your point that implementation of the software now favors the distributor. Never once in my experience with Steam have I ever felt like I had anything less than 100% control over my games and when and how I decide to play them.

People who couldn't play due to internet problems might disagree.

 

[Maniacal]

For me, I don't hate Steam.

I resent the companies that force me to use steam. Like what others have stated previously. I'm not really the mulyiplayer type gamer. I like single games just fine. I want to be able to insert my disc, install the game on my computer and start playing without the hassle of registering online or downloading it. I want to have a disc that I can use on every computer.

I can understand why people like Steam and I can see how it can be beneficial but it isn't for me and that's the sour spot. I am forced to use something I don't want if I want to play a game... that's just not right in my book.

While I am not a fan of online activations or requiring other software either (especially since there are still people without reliable internet even in 'merica, although some companies, like Blizzard, no longer care about them because they are a shrinking minority), but nothing in your post is Steam specific. Many (most?) games require an online activation these days, regardless of what DRM they use, and Steam does allow you to install on multiple computers (with the disc too, although day one patches are certainly on the rise).

 

[mayor]

While I am not a fan of online activations or requiring other software either (especially since there are still people without reliable internet even in 'merica, although some companies, like Blizzard, no longer care about them because they are a shrinking minority), but nothing in your post is Steam specific. Many (most?) games require an online activation these days, regardless of what DRM they use, and Steam does allow you to install on multiple computers (with the disc too, although day one patches are certainly on the rise).

In my experience I have always been able to deny the online registration. That is my whole issue. I don't mind online registration as long as I have the choice to deny it.

I didn't know that Steam allows you to install the game on multiple computers but that's not my issue. It doesn't allow you to install a game on a computer without internet. I know that this is a rare thing but still...
Second is that I want to be able to insert the disc and install it instead of downloading it. The internet on my desktop, which I use for games, doesn't have a fast internet connection. Where I used to be able to play a new game in mere minutes with steam I had to wait for Empire:TW for over a day before it was ready....

Then there are the moments that I want to log on steam to play and it gives me a notification that this action is currently impossible (forgot what reason they give). This can be solved by restarting my computer but that's not the point. It is ridiculous that I am dependent on the availability of an external program to be able to play a game I PAID for...

 

[Maniacal]

Second is that I want to be able to insert the disc and install it instead of downloading it. The internet on my desktop, which I use for games, doesn't have a fast internet connection. Where I used to be able to play a new game in mere minutes with steam I had to wait for Empire:TW for over a day before it was ready....

You can install it with the disc, sometimes it tries to download it instead but all you have to do is stop the DL, delete what little it installed (if anything) and try again. Hasn't happened to me yet though.

 

[mayor]

You can install it with the disc, sometimes it tries to download it instead but all you have to do is stop the DL, delete what little it installed (if anything) and try again. Hasn't happened to me yet though.

hmm... really? I tried that with Empire:TW but I wasn't able to do that...

 

[Dachs]

You're missing the point, Valve isn't sitting down and saying "Hey, wouldn't it be funny to say screw you to the Aussies and charge them more for games?", if they significantly undercut the retail stores (outside of sales, which stores barely do if at all) they risk having the stores pulling Valve's and Steamworks titles off the shelves or other problems.

I doubt that threat would be very effective on the grounds that Valve's barely released anything over the last several years.

 

[Commodore]

Someone obviously hasn't been here while the Civ5 prerelease discussions ^^.



Did you see this thread? Direct2Drive fully merging into GameFly and purchases might not transfer.
That proves that it's not a non-issue.



People who couldn't play due to internet problems might disagree.

Yes I saw that and all my D2D purchases carried over so, again, no issues for me. And even if it is a huge problem, it will only be a temporary hiccup. I don't see why temporary hiccups means that we should essentially go back to the Dark Ages of gaming.

Internet connectivity is also a non-issue since all digital distribution services have an offline mode. If people can't get the offline mode to work, chances are the problem is with their computer and not with the distribution program. Again, I say this because me and everyone I know uses offline mode with absolutely zero issues. And this was in Iraq two years ago, with crappy internet that went out quite frequently. It was Steam, D2D, and Impulse's outstanding offline functionality in Iraq that really sold me on the superiority of digital distribution.

I think the fact that these services are thriving right now that is a testament to overall customer satisfaction, since if people weren't happy, they would discontinue use of the service and probably pirate the games instead.

As has been stated by someone else in this thread: the pros outweigh the cons when it comes to digital distribution. It benefits the consumer, developers, and publishers.

 

[MoonFlare]

Steam saved PC gaming from death. It's still DRM but it is a lot better than what ubisoft is using. Funny facts about those jerks: http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/10/07/opinion-ubisoft-piracy-and-the-death-of-reason/
I really like Anno 2070 but FFS! How ******** this dumb *$!%$£ are?!?! Just use Steam for it.
There are some things to improve:
1. Steam should only be active when playing a MP game or going after achievements. I never had this problem with Sins of a Solar Empire. It was linked to Impulse. Impulse was used only for updating the game. The offline mode desperately needs streamlining. Just one simple button - don't start steam when starting the game(MP games like TF2 don't count).
2. Fix that stupid regional policy. All games should be available in every region of the world. Most people love Skyrim. I love Skyrim. But i won't be able to download any expansion because Skyrim is no longer available in Steam from Russia. I(and a lot of other people with similar problems) will have to wait for months before ******** local publishers will release it. And sometimes they will only release it as a part of "the complete edition".

 

[Commodore]

2. Fix that stupid regional policy. All games should be available in every region of the world. Most people love Skyrim. I love Skyrim. But i won't be able to download any expansion because Skyrim is no longer available in Steam from Russia. I(and a lot of other people with similar problems) will have to wait for months before ******** local publishers will release it. And sometimes they will only release it as a part of "the complete edition".

That's really not under Steam's control. Different parts of the world have different rules as to what games can be released and when. Valve, just like any other business, has to respect those rules.

 

[mayor]

Steam saved PC gaming from death.

How do you figure?

 

[Antilogic]

Untrue, Gabe has stated that if Valve or Steam goes down for good, they'll release a patch to make all their games playable without any online verification.

I'll believe it when I see it. Until then, give me the guaranteed copy, not some empty promise.

Internet connectivity is also a non-issue since all digital distribution services have an offline mode. If people can't get the offline mode to work, chances are the problem is with their computer and not with the distribution program. Again, I say this because me and everyone I know uses offline mode with absolutely zero issues. And this was in Iraq two years ago, with crappy internet that went out quite frequently. It was Steam, D2D, and Impulse's outstanding offline functionality in Iraq that really sold me on the superiority of digital distribution.

Steam's offline mode settings are still a mystery to me. I set it for offline mode, yet it still requires a connection if I reboot my computer. And if I find myself in a place without internet access and didn't think to log in beforehand and set offline mode, then I'm screwed.



Finally, as other people have said, I like the option of not registering the game or getting "automatic updates" that might make mods incompatible, etc. That's frustrating as hell, especially with Paradox games when the patching is often sporadic and they are stuck in beta-patch-land (which isn't distributed by Steam, as far as I know) for months.

 

[Polycrates]

You're missing the point, Valve isn't sitting down and saying "Hey, wouldn't it be funny to say screw you to the Aussies and charge them more for games?", if they significantly undercut the retail stores (outside of sales, which stores barely do if at all) they risk having the stores pulling Valve's and Steamworks titles off the shelves or other problems. As well the contracts and agreements they have with publishers, who are probably in no rush to fix the inflated prices.

Pull them off the shelves? They're not on the shelves in the first place, pc game retail is completely dead in Australia except for world of warcraft and sims expansion packs (and the rest of retail is going the same way now that everyone has realised just how badly we've been ripped off for so many years and how much cheaper we can get stuff from overseas). Steam isn't really the plucky underdog in this picture.
The point is not that they're trying to be dicks, it's that they're not under enough pressure from anyone else that they feel the need to use their rather considerable clout to stand up to these guys and bargain for better agreements. Plus I suspect nobody quite realises just how endemic piracy of games/movies/tv/music is in Australia because of the exorbitant prices and general contempt we're always shown, and just how much of a killing someone would make by sweeping in and undercutting the competition with a fairly-priced digital service.

 

[Dell19]

Sometimes standing up to publishers isn't great. For instance Lovefilm have an ongoing spat with Universal Pictures which means that its not possible to rent their films. Also steam are probably still trying to encourage more publishers to use them rather than create their own alternatives so they might not have that much power over what price they charge.

 

[Maniacal]

I doubt that threat would be very effective on the grounds that Valve's barely released anything over the last several years.

Not just Valve games but any game using Steamworks. GameStop flipped out last year when Deus Ex: Human Revolution came with a free code for the OnLive version and some stores even opened up the boxes and removed the codes before pulling it off the shelves.

Internet connectivity is also a non-issue since all digital distribution services have an offline mode.

Not all of them, Green Man Gaming will only let you be offline for a max of 3 days before cutting off access to your games. And Steam's offline mode is buggy, it used to work fine for me all the time but last November decided not too. Sometimes it is user error for sure, but not always.

 

[GoodGame]

Internet connectivity is also a non-issue since all digital distribution services have an offline mode. If people can't get the offline mode to work, chances are the problem is with their computer and not with the distribution program. Again, I say this because me and everyone I know uses offline mode with absolutely zero issues. And this was in Iraq two years ago, with crappy internet that went out quite frequently. It was Steam, D2D, and Impulse's outstanding offline functionality in Iraq that really sold me on the superiority of digital distribution.

I assume you had a laptop with intermittent internet though?

A problem is for system builders who regularly do step upgrades (me). Sometimes that triggers the computer to look like a new creature (at least in XP) to the DRM software, necessitating a reinstall or the need to login online before resuming an offline mode. Similarly, the HDD can crash eventually. Sure it's up to the guy wronging the computer to back it up, but again if people move to areas where the cable internet isn't affordable nor available in every neighborhood, then the online distribution is a problem.

 

[Commodore]

Steam's offline mode settings are still a mystery to me. I set it for offline mode, yet it still requires a connection if I reboot my computer. And if I find myself in a place without internet access and didn't think to log in beforehand and set offline mode, then I'm screwed.



Finally, as other people have said, I like the option of not registering the game or getting "automatic updates" that might make mods incompatible, etc. That's frustrating as hell, especially with Paradox games when the patching is often sporadic and they are stuck in beta-patch-land (which isn't distributed by Steam, as far as I know) for months.

I guess I just must be extremely lucky with offline mode then, because if I don't have an internet connection Steam doesn't even require me to login to go into offline mode. It just says something like "Cannot connect to Steam servers" and then it gives me the option to retry the connection or to start in offline mode and the offline mode works perfectly.

Why would you not want the automatic updates? I find that to be extremely convienent. Sure it may ruin some mods, but can you really blame Steam for that? Patches are usually announced way in advance, giving modmakers enough time to start planning a new version of their mod. As for patches not being released on Steam in a timely manner: Again, that's not Steam's fault. If the developer doesn't release the patch on Steam, there is nothing Valve can do about it except keep asking the developer to release the patch for it's users.

I assume you had a laptop with intermittent internet though?

A problem is for system builders who regularly do step upgrades (me). Sometimes that triggers the computer to look like a new creature (at least in XP) to the DRM software, necessitating a reinstall or the need to login online before resuming an offline mode. Similarly, the HDD can crash eventually. Sure it's up to the guy wronging the computer to back it up, but again if people move to areas where the cable internet isn't affordable nor available in every neighborhood, then the online distribution is a problem.

Yes I had a laptop with very poor internet connection. Depending on the conditions, it would sometimes go out for a month at a time.

I agree with you that the things you mention are problems, but when I say it is a non-issue, I mean that the number of people that experience those issues is so small that it really isn't worth addressing. I know that sounds harsh, but no system is ever going to be perfect and it would be a waste of time and money to try and solve every single little issue that pops up. Plus, I think Steam is a pretty efficient and well-oiled system considering they don't charge users a single cent to use the service.

What leads me to believe tht all these issues are minor is the fact that if they were really that bad then digitial distribution services would not be doing as well as they are.