Why ask for an Italy civ when you can reasonably ask for two Italian based civs?

Evie

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While the modern country of Italy is pretty recent, the idea that Italy didn't exist before it flies in the face of even a cursory look at history. As a concept with a defined reality and identity (not a national identity in the modern nationalist sense, but in the sense that if you spoke about "Italy" and "Italians" people knew who that was), Italy is considerably older, and most iterations of that conception, no matter how politically divided, is as much part of Italian civilization as the modern state.

And leaders from across that history are just as valid as Italian leaders, even if they didn't lead all of Italy. The idea that only political leaders who led the entire civilization in a single state are eligible as leaders is based on mistaking gameplay mechanical what-if for the historical reality of the playable civs. .
 
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And leaders from across that history are just as valid as Italian leaders, even if they didn't lead all of Italy. The idea that only political leaders who led the entire civilization in a single state are eligible as leaders is based on mistaking gameplay mechanical what-if for the historical reality of the playable civs. .
Considering we are getting Ludwig II for Germany, and he was only King of Bavaria, I think it's a weaker argument than it has been.

At least I hope it means that for Civ 7 we could have a Medici leading an Italian civ, and not just Florence or Tuscany. :)
 

Zaarin

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Germany, Canada, and Australia would like to have a word with your bit on younger civs being unimportant…
You have high standards if over a thousand years for Germany is "young."

Anyway, I've mostly stayed out of this discussion because an Italian civ is something I don't have strong opinions on either way. If we got an Italian civ, the Republic of Venice or the Republic of Genoa would be my preference as the Late Middle Ages and Early Modern periods were a highwater mark of the Italian states, and modern Italy's greatest accomplishment has been Mussolini being the Allies' greatest asset in World War II. :mischief:
 

Evie

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Considering we are getting Ludwig II for Germany, and he was only King of Bavaria, I think it's a weaker argument than it has been.

At least I hope it means that for Civ 7 we could have a Medici leading an Italian civ, and not just Florence or Tuscany. :)
Considering that Frederick the Great (led Germany twice in Civ), and Pericles (led Greece twice in Civ) never led Unified Greece/Germany, the argument never existed in the first place - but some people insisted on making it anyway because they make the mistake of applying gameplay mechanism (the player control all cities of the civ) to determine what historical civs and leaders are admissible to the game. This despite the game being What If, not What Is.

It was never supported by the way the game was developed, it never made any sense, but they clung to it anyway.
 

Xandinho

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With the addition of Australia and Canada, Italy is the only top 10 gaming market not to be in the game 'explicitly', so I wouldn't be surprised if it comes eventually.
A little late for Civ6, though, I think. As much as I'd love to see some of the gaps filled in, I don't think they're going to be adding more civs at this point. Ideally, Venice would have come in Scotland's place and now Europe would be finished for me. But I hope that an Italian representation comes in Civ7 already in the base game or beginning of its development.
 

Zaarin

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A little late for Civ6, though, I think. As much as I'd love to see some of the gaps filled in, I don't think they're going to be adding more civs at this point. Ideally, Venice would have come in Scotland's place and now Europe would be finished for me. But I hope that an Italian representation comes in Civ7 already in the base game or beginning of its development.
I'd be disappointed to see Venice and Rome in the base game, and there is a 0% chance that Rome won't be in the base game. Whatever civ represents Italy, it has a better chance as a DLC or expansion civ.
 
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You have high standards if over a thousand years for Germany is "young."
Modern nation of Germany is most likely what was meant.
Ideally, Venice would have come in Scotland's place and now Europe would be finished for me.
Venice would have needed to be in GS. Venice without a unique Canal district would feel weird. :p
 

Zaarin

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Zaarin

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Evie

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The Venetians get a Unique Building Canale that replace the water mill for their city centers, the Chinesse get a unique building Grand Canal that replaces the Canal district and has its own mechanics of where it can be built and what benefits it provides so they can finally have a Unique Infrastructure that's not the freaking Great Wall.
 
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The Venetians get a Unique Building Canale that replace the water mill for their city centers
But that's just like Babylon. :crazyeye:
 

reddishrecue

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I saw Italy civ was going to be one of the civilizations for civ 7 along with Cherokee a Caribbean civilization and a new Egyptian leader which could be Imhotep but was a GE in civ 4.
 

Evie

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Ah yes clearly no two civs can replace the sane building.
Well, they certainly can. That's not what I meant at all by saying that. My point was that Babylon already has a unique watermill that clearly references the irrigation canals.
 

Evie

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Fair, but in Venice's case it's more urban transportation canals, completely unrelated to irrigation, so rather different really, and not really fitting the district or the irrigation canal at all,
 
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Fair, but in Venice's case it's more urban transportation canals, completely unrelated to irrigation, so rather different really, and not really fitting the district or the irrigation canal at all,
Irregardless, here's my idea that seems more fitting than just another city center building:

Canal Grande: Grants +2 Culture and +5 Housing when built and +2 Tourism after discovering Conservation civic. Traders that pass through a Canal Grande receive bonus gold and culture. Only one side of the Canal Grande must have either another body of water or the City Center adjacent to it.
 

BuchiTaton

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All these talk about Italian representatives is turning again and again to City States. So at least to me this is a reason to turn city states in something more interesting redoubling the uniquest and value of each one. Every city state can be as visually special as any Wonder, turning their City Center in a unique District. For example Florence with the Cathedral of Santa Maria del Fiore, the Palazzo Vecchio and the Museum of San Marcos. Venice with the Basillica and the Campanile of San Marco, the Doge´s Palace and the Marciana Library. Milan with its Duomo, La Scala and the Galleria Vitorio Emanuele II.

At the same time that the City State itself provide uniques (bonus, units, resources, etc.) it also have a population with specific Heritage (culture) allowig to have an Italian identity that provide others bonus and interactions.
 

Zaarin

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All these talk about Italian representatives is turning again and again to City States. So at least to me this is a reason to turn city states in something more interesting redoubling the uniquest and value of each one. Every city state can be as visually special as any Wonder, turning their City Center in a unique District. For example Florence with the Cathedral of Santa Maria del Fiore, the Palazzo Vecchio and the Museum of San Marcos. Venice with the Basillica and the Campanile of San Marco, the Doge´s Palace and the Marciana Library. Milan with its Duomo, La Scala and the Galleria Vitorio Emanuele II.

At the same time that the City State itself provide uniques (bonus, units, resources, etc.) it also have a population with specific Heritage (culture) allowig to have an Italian identity that provide others bonus and interactions.
I'm always for more unique everything.
 
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