Why cant both these cities build a stoneworks?

[Strategist83]

That's because the information you were given before regarding the circus is incorrect. It's not about which city culturally claims the tile in question, but about which city 'claimed it first', regardless of whether it's currently within borders.

You founded Ollan-whatever first, and the game detects that the two stone resources are near it. They are assigned to Ollan-whatever, and regardless of what cities you found next or what tiles you purchase etc etc they'll never belong to any other city. It's the exact same thing with the circuses so you need to extra careful where you settle cities close to these resources.

 

[bhavv]

No ollan is Inca's fourth city, Machu is third.

Machu was definitely founded before ollan.

I think the resource simply gets assigned to the nearest city, which is lame if you are trying to grab one resource per city for the buildings.

But the stone in the middle is 3 tiles away from both cities! So that cant be right either.

 

[Luckystrike77]

Nope. you can build stonework in the city if the culture which claimed the stone came from that city. You can also buy the stone tile to the city you want to have it, before the other citys culture eats it up. Works the same for other buildings like stable and circus. It's not a bug, but intended.

 

[Strategist83]

Darn, I thought it was the other way around. In that case I can't explain it.

^ LuckyStrike's findings above does NOT match my experience, I've never found it to have anything to do with culture, just with city placements.

 

[bhavv]

The culture from Machu definitely claimed the stone, but stoneworks cant be built. Ollans borders havnt expanded anywhere near it, as you can see in the last couple of screenshots.

So it must be glitched?

 

[Keejus]

Yeah, that looks like the game bugging out on you

(Incidentally, stoneworks can be built on plains. Dunno what's up with that tooltip)

 

[BukoJuko]

haveant played MUCH since patch but i remember not being able to build a stoneworks in a city that was settled on a plains tile

 

[magnus333]

Stone was clearly added as a balancing tool for grass vs plains. I once did a 100 turn test where I rerolled the map until I got the ultimate plains start and also the ultimate grass start. I played both games to turn 100 and focused production. The plains capital had 40/t and the grass had 7-8/t. Playing both games until about turn 150 I had already conquered my whole continent in the plains game but was struggling to do anything with the grass game except have a big city.

When people complained about production being too slow, part of it was because costs were too high but another part was likely that they had large patches of grasslands and little to no plains.
If you check the LUA, stone is restricted to grass (also desert and tundra which have low production as well) so it was clearly aimed at balancing terrain types. Plains are still more hammers than grass but not 5-7x as much more by turn 100. They didn't want people to stack plains natural production power with stone that happened to be in a nearby grass tile so that's probably why the restriction is there. I'm sure there is a lot more precise math involved.

 

[Keejus]

Huh, I could've sworn I built stoneworks in plains once.

Of course I've since overwritten the file, so I can't check. I'll have to get back to you on that one!

 

[bryanw1995]

Ok look, this has to a bug:


Spoiler:




Spoiler:



This Time Machu acquired the stone resource into its cultural border, but it still cant build stoneworks.

Ollan acquired a stone and a horse, and can build both stoneworks and circus, but Machu which has the same resources cannot build a stoneworks.

As noted above, machu was built on plains so it can't build a stone works.

 

[magnus333]

If you look in buildings.xml the windmall has a nohills tag but stoneworks does not have a similar noplains tag. Likely an oversight that will get fixed.

 

[nokmirt]

I hope I am not stupid in asking this, but doesn't each city have control of certain tiles. There can never be two cities in control of the same tile. Am I not correct??? Looking twice it has to be a bug, that city that controls the stone resource in between the two cities should be able to build stoneworks. Both cities should be able to build it. Both control a stone resource.

 

[Pazyryk]

Well, it can't logically be based on tiles worked, because then you could have resource-dependent buildings in 2 or 3 cities for a single resource. I first thought it was based on "first cultural claim," but then I saw a couple cases that better fit Strategist83's model above (first city placed within 3-tile radius). (Possibly it's not exactly either, hence the confusion.)

 

[bhavv]

As noted above, machu was built on plains so it can't build a stone works.

Its clearly on a flat grassland tile as shown in the very first spoiler wrapped screenshot I posted in the OP.

Well, it can't logically be based on tiles worked, because then you could have resource-dependent buildings in 2 or 3 cities for a single resource. I first thought it was based on "first cultural claim," but then I saw a couple cases that better fit Strategist83's model above (first city placed within 3-tile radius). (Possibly it's not exactly either, hence the confusion.)

Machu was built before Ollan, and claimed the Stone tile which is both 3 tiles away from both cities first. Ollan has its own second stone resource that it is building stoneworks from, the one that Machu has isnt even within Ollans cultural influence.

 

[bryanw1995]

I had trouble viewing your original screen shot, sorry. We're just trying to help you diagnose the issue, there's not need to get your feathers in a ruffle. However, you seem to have it all figured out so good luck!

 

[Callonia]

Solution is simple, in the third screenshot, it shows that Ollan currently have authority over that stone hex, you see the arrows over it? Press it to flip the control of that hex over to Machu, That should permit Machu to build the stonework.

 

[bhavv]

Solution is simple, in the third screenshot, it shows that Ollan currently have authority over that stone hex, you see the arrows over it? Press it to flip the control of that hex over to Machu, That should permit Machu to build the stonework.

Unfortunately that wont work either. The tile is already owned and being worked by Machu, those arrow symbols flip it back to ollan

 

[Callonia]

well that's weird.

 

[Bezurn]

The tooltip for the building "City must not be in plains". Perhaps this means that a majority of the tiles surrondiing the city must not be plains, not that the city itself can't be built on plains.

It is a puzzle as the claimed theory I stated seems to hold true for the 1635 hours I have played of Civ V

 

[Rudragun]

The alternative which has not been proposed is that you can't build one there simply because the city is three tiles away from the Stone resource. That shouldn't be the solution, but it might be. I'll check into it.