Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Narz, Jun 17, 2005.
Is Quasar about to make a sale?
Assuming you are a human being, then yes, you deserve to go to hell just as I do. I'm not judging you, I'm warning you, there's a difference.
How do you know that I deserve to go to hell? What have I done to deserve that? And what is this hell of which you speak?
All human beings are sinful and imperfect by their very nature. If you are a human being then you are sinful and imperfect, therefore you cannot be allowed into the presence of God (IE Heaven) if you are not redeemed by Christ. That's basically what hell is, the absence of God. (I suggest looking into the "Hell" thread for further ideas )
But how do you know that?
Why did God create us this way? Are we his amusment?
This is a belief system that has caused unfathomable suffering and misery over the last six thousand years.
It's very easy to hurt someone when you see them as a worthless sinner instead of an innocent flesh and blood sentiant creature trying to survive. Look to the crusades as an example of this.
Look a slavery for an example too. White is traditionally considered the color of purity, so the blacks were though to be more sinful because of their skin color. The church condoned the practice of slavery for years and said it was a way to salvation. Sick.
I still don't get the whole Devil thing. Once he rebelled, why didn't god just destroy him? Why let humanity suffer for thousands of years? He sounds like a prick to me. "Worship me or burn... But I love you!"
Another thing: Why can't god just wipe away that sins of humanity? Why does he need to send a son? Couldn't he have just said "Worship me an your sins will go away?"
You know, if God is so hot on people following him and obeying him, he could just publicly smite a few of the big-name nasties around the planet. But, being perfect and all, I'm sure he thought of that already.
And I've always wondered, what of the people that have literally no chance to hear about God (the Christian version, anyway) since the missionary didn't make it to their village or whatnot? They're presumably going to hell as well, through no fault of their own?
That is a subject to theological debate, but most agree that do not necessarily go to hell unless you deliberately choose not to follow God. If you are simply ignorant of the truth, and yet do the best you can with what you know, then you still get to go to heaven.
Hmmm, no wonder natives stereotypically put missionaries in pots and had them for dinner: "You come into our village, tell us through interpreter about your god that doesn't seem all that much better from ours, and explain that now we go to hell unless we convert, whereas before you showed up we were all going to your heaven anyway?"
That should mean that almost everyone go to heaven, shouldn't it? Since very few people probably outright communicate with a presumed god, and most people don't willfully spend most of their lives causing other people to suffer either. So unless the threshold for what is considered a large enough sin to go to hell is quite low, (which, seeing that 'god' is supposed to be good it shouldn't be) most people are really just trying to live their lives and shouldn't have to be punished for that. In other words, it doesn't matter if you believe in this god or not (as far as concerns going to heaven or hell).
That's not a godd analogy because: a) I do only know the outcome on the 2nd time, but for God there cannot be a first or a second, it just doesn't make sense. b) it creates a new problem, as someone already mentioned, because then God would not have any power to change what is shown in the video, it is already written, therefor not only does God not intervene, he can't
For that, God could not be watching the video in his sofa at home, but he'd have to be the director. And then, we go back again, if he is the director, he pulls the strings and the actors do not possess free will, they follow the script.
god made free will not athiests
why did god make homosexuals
Micheal Jackson (oops meant to include that one above)
he didnt, we did, well MJ made himself but lets not discuss
Well, only God knows who does and who does not meet the requirements. It is obvious that people like Moses and Elijah, though not Christians, are in heaven. I'd wager that Gandhi is in heaven as well, but I don't know for sure. There are plenty of people who I don't think will go to heaven. Humanists decide to live their lives for themselves, to get as much fun out of life as they can. They certainly know about God, but they choose to ignore him because following him isn't convienient. That is just one example, but I won't give any other in order to keep this post short. Besides, I don't presume to know what exactly is God's requirement to get into heaven.
So to get as much fun out of life as possible is a sin that causes one to go to hell? I think that dooms just about everyone. How can you truly believe that having fun and living your life as you like without causing harm to others should somehow be punishable in terms of what one must consider the greatest of all punishments - hell?
Also, if people who believe in this god don't know what exactly the requirements are to go to heaven (in other words, avoiding going to hell -> not being punished), how much sense does that make? If you really think there is a god that will punish you (hell) if you don't do things in a certain way, wouldn't it at least make sense that this god made it crystal clear to you what the requirements were?
I think I would be a wee bit pissed off if someone told me that they were going to punish me if I didn't lead my life in a certain way, but they wouldn't tell me exactly what that way were.
OK, I misspoke. I didn't mean to say that following God and "having fun" are opposites. I meant to say that people who live for themselves, literally, people who make themselves God, are not going to heaven.
As for requirements for going to heaven, they do indeed exist. Just read the Bible to find out what they are (not in the scope of this post). My point was that it is most likely that God has mercy on those who do not know of the choice they have to accept salvation. The Bible isn't clear where this line is drawn, which is completely different from the requirements to be saved.
But you flat out stated the above. Is it precisely laid out in the Bible or isn't it? There really shouldn't be any room for interpretation on how to avoid the ultimate punishment, should there?
Now, why this god wants to punish people who don't follow these rules is beyond me.
Ironduck basically said this just now, but if the requirements are certain and definate, then why be vague about telling them? Is he hoping that his followers will figure it out for themselves? We all know how well that has turned out.
There isn't any room for interpretation on how to avoid the ultimate punishment, as you put it. Anyone falling short of salvation deserves to be doomed to hell. What isn't precisely laid out in the Bible is the role that God's grace and mercy plays in the fate of people who do indeed fall short.
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