Narz
keeping it real
Is Quasar about to make a sale?vbraun said:Sorry, Everybody that believes in him?

Is Quasar about to make a sale?vbraun said:Sorry, Everybody that believes in him?
ironduck said:I deserve hell? What is this 'hell' you think I deserve, and who are you to cast such judgement on me?
Elrohir said:Assuming you are a human being, then yes, you deserve to go to hell just as I do. I'm not judging you, I'm warning you, there's a difference.
ironduck said:How do you know that I deserve to go to hell? What have I done to deserve that? And what is this hell of which you speak?
Elrohir said:All human beings are sinful and imperfect by their very nature. If you are a human being then you are sinful and imperfect, therefore you cannot be allowed into the presence of God (IE Heaven) if you are not redeemed by Christ. That's basically what hell is, the absence of God. (I suggest looking into the "Hell" thread for further ideas)
Why did God create us this way? Are we his amusment?Elrohir said:All human beings are sinful and imperfect by their very nature. If you are a human being then you are sinful and imperfect, therefore you cannot be allowed into the presence of God (IE Heaven) if you are not redeemed by Christ. That's basically what hell is, the absence of God. (I suggest looking into the "Hell" thread for further ideas)
This is a belief system that has caused unfathomable suffering and misery over the last six thousand years.Elrohir said:All human beings are sinful and imperfect by their very nature. If you are a human being then you are sinful and imperfect, therefore you cannot be allowed into the presence of God (IE Heaven) if you are not redeemed by Christ. That's basically what hell is, the absence of God. (I suggest looking into the "Hell" thread for further ideas)
Look a slavery for an example too. White is traditionally considered the color of purity, so the blacks were though to be more sinful because of their skin color. The church condoned the practice of slavery for years and said it was a way to salvation. Sick.Narz said:It's very easy to hurt someone when you see them as a worthless sinner instead of an innocent flesh and blood sentiant creature trying to survive. Look to the crusades as an example of this.
Quasar1011 said:No, He couldn't do this to everybody, because everybody doesn't believe in Him, nor follow/obey Him. And before you say "then He's not all-Powerful", remember that God wants people to follow Him and obey Him. God wants to fellowship with us. He loves us as a Father.If you want His life-changing benefits, you need to come and fellowship with Him yourself. God does not bless disobedience.
That is a subject to theological debate, but most agree that do not necessarily go to hell unless you deliberately choose not to follow God. If you are simply ignorant of the truth, and yet do the best you can with what you know, then you still get to go to heaven.IglooDude said:And I've always wondered, what of the people that have literally no chance to hear about God (the Christian version, anyway) since the missionary didn't make it to their village or whatnot? They're presumably going to hell as well, through no fault of their own?
Micaelis Rex said:That is a subject to theological debate, but most agree that do not necessarily go to hell unless you deliberately choose not to follow God. If you are simply ignorant of the truth, and yet do the best you can with what you know, then you still get to go to heaven.
Micaelis Rex said:That is a subject to theological debate, but most agree that do not necessarily go to hell unless you deliberately choose not to follow God. If you are simply ignorant of the truth, and yet do the best you can with what you know, then you still get to go to heaven.
Quasar1011 said:Have you ever watched a DVD or video a 2nd time? You knew the outcome, correct? But did you control the outcome? No. This is a sample of what it is like to have an advantage in time. Knowing the choices that are made, because you've already seen them, does not necessarily mean you had an input into those choices.
Well, only God knows who does and who does not meet the requirements. It is obvious that people like Moses and Elijah, though not Christians, are in heaven. I'd wager that Gandhi is in heaven as well, but I don't know for sure. There are plenty of people who I don't think will go to heaven. Humanists decide to live their lives for themselves, to get as much fun out of life as they can. They certainly know about God, but they choose to ignore him because following him isn't convienient. That is just one example, but I won't give any other in order to keep this post short. Besides, I don't presume to know what exactly is God's requirement to get into heaven.ironduck said:That should mean that almost everyone go to heaven, shouldn't it? Since very few people probably outright communicate with a presumed god, and most people don't willfully spend most of their lives causing other people to suffer either. So unless the threshold for what is considered a large enough sin to go to hell is quite low, (which, seeing that 'god' is supposed to be good it shouldn't be) most people are really just trying to live their lives and shouldn't have to be punished for that. In other words, it doesn't matter if you believe in this god or not (as far as concerns going to heaven or hell).
Micaelis Rex said:Humanists decide to live their lives for themselves, to get as much fun out of life as they can. They certainly know about God, but they choose to ignore him because following him isn't convienient. That is just one example, but I won't give any other in order to keep this post short. Besides, I don't presume to know what exactly is God's requirement to get into heaven.
OK, I misspoke. I didn't mean to say that following God and "having fun" are opposites. I meant to say that people who live for themselves, literally, people who make themselves God, are not going to heaven.ironduck said:So to get as much fun out of life as possible is a sin that causes one to go to hell? I think that dooms just about everyone. How can you truly believe that having fun and living your life as you like without causing harm to others should somehow be punishable in terms of what one must consider the greatest of all punishments - hell?
Also, if people who believe in this god don't know what exactly the requirements are to go to heaven (in other words, avoiding going to hell -> not being punished), how much sense does that make? If you really think there is a god that will punish you (hell) if you don't do things in a certain way, wouldn't it at least make sense that this god made it crystal clear to you what the requirements were?
I think I would be a wee bit pissed off if someone told me that they were going to punish me if I didn't lead my life in a certain way, but they wouldn't tell me exactly what that way were.
Micaelis Rex said:Besides, I don't presume to know what exactly is God's requirement to get into heaven.
Micaelis Rex said:The Bible isn't clear where this line is drawn, which is completely different from the requirements to be saved.
There isn't any room for interpretation on how to avoid the ultimate punishment, as you put it. Anyone falling short of salvation deserves to be doomed to hell. What isn't precisely laid out in the Bible is the role that God's grace and mercy plays in the fate of people who do indeed fall short.ironduck said:But you flat out stated the above. Is it precisely laid out in the Bible or isn't it? There really shouldn't be any room for interpretation on how to avoid the ultimate punishment, should there?
Now, why this god wants to punish people who don't follow these rules is beyond me.