1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Why did God create atheists?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Narz, Jun 17, 2005.

  1. Quasar1011

    Quasar1011 King of Sylvania

    Joined:
    May 17, 2003
    Messages:
    2,968
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    California
    Have you ever watched a DVD or video a 2nd time? You knew the outcome, correct? But did you control the outcome? No. This is a sample of what it is like to have an advantage in time. Knowing the choices that are made, because you've already seen them, does not necessarily mean you had an input into those choices.
     
  2. vbraun

    vbraun Raytracing

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2003
    Messages:
    3,530
    Location:
    Arizona, USA
    Sure we can try. A long time ago it could be said, "We will never no the nature of the stars, by definition understanding them is beyond us" (Well maybe not so formal) ;)

    I need a better answer then that.
     
  3. ironduck

    ironduck Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2002
    Messages:
    6,561
    Do you really mean this?

    And, what constitutes a sinner that 'deserves' it to you? How great must the 'sin' be before the person will go to hell?
     
  4. Elrohir

    Elrohir RELATIONAL VALORIZATION

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2004
    Messages:
    12,507
    I didn't say you couldn't try, just that you won't succeed.
     
  5. vbraun

    vbraun Raytracing

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2003
    Messages:
    3,530
    Location:
    Arizona, USA
    I'm still waiting for a better answer. By saying our brains are to small to figure that out is just a way of dodging the question.
     
  6. Elrohir

    Elrohir RELATIONAL VALORIZATION

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2004
    Messages:
    12,507
    No it's not. It's saying that you will at best get only a partial answer.
     
  7. ironduck

    ironduck Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2002
    Messages:
    6,561
    How can *you* know that?

    Who made up *your* definition of who can know and cannot know about 'god'?
     
  8. vbraun

    vbraun Raytracing

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2003
    Messages:
    3,530
    Location:
    Arizona, USA
    Then tell me part of the answer.
     
  9. cgannon64

    cgannon64 BOB DYLAN'S ROCKIN OUT!

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2002
    Messages:
    19,213
    Location:
    Hipster-Authorland, Brooklyn (Hell)
    The sin must be great enough that it occludes their sight of God; it must break their relationship with Him.
     
  10. Quasar1011

    Quasar1011 King of Sylvania

    Joined:
    May 17, 2003
    Messages:
    2,968
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    California
    There are no limits to God's power. God can do anything He wants. However, there are some things He does not want to do. And one of those things is create beings "in His image", without giving them free will.

    May I remind you that angels were also created with free will. They had audience with God, and lived in His presence. But after the covering cherub (Lucifer) rebelled, 1/3 of the angels rebelled as well, to follow Lucifer (who then became Satan).

    What is striking about free will on Earth, is that humans can exercise their free will to go along with God's plan, or to go against it. He will not force any choices on humans. But He created Earth, so that a race of beings could operate by faith (not seeing Him), and still choose to love Him.

    God did not create evil, but He did allow evil. The bottom line is, He has solved the problem of evil. We are simply waiting for the full implementation of His plan! :)
     
  11. ironduck

    ironduck Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2002
    Messages:
    6,561
    But you said they 'deserve' it. So you must have some kind of opinion of what it takes to deserve such a thing. Otherwise you couldn't say that people would deserve going to hell, if you have no idea what it takes for them to go there.

    Just saying it breaks people's relationship with 'god' doesn't tell me anything. I've never felt a connection with any god, does that mean I have no relationship with such a god and will go to hell?
     
  12. Elrohir

    Elrohir RELATIONAL VALORIZATION

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2004
    Messages:
    12,507
    You're asking me to explain God to you? That's a very big question, and one that has been debated for millenia.
     
  13. Narz

    Narz keeping it real

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2002
    Messages:
    28,156
    Location:
    St. Petersburg, Florida
    Who deserves hell? Or better question? Why would got create a world where people became so desperate that they needed to sin in order to get by (and therefore ended up in hell)? It's like he built a Civ map with only enough resources for one Civ to flourish and then had to nerve to get mad when the Civs would fight for land.

    Why do millions need to suffer eternally for one to be saved? Would it be worth it??? Hell no! The question is : why do we need to be "saved" anyway? Do birds, bees, tiger and cimpanzees need to be "saved"? What's wrong with just living life and being happy?
     
  14. ironduck

    ironduck Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2002
    Messages:
    6,561
    If 'he' is all-powerful 'he' already 'solved' the 'problem' of evil in the beginning, since there was never a 'problem' to him in the first place. Why does he then need a 'plan' to solve a non-existing problem?
     
  15. Elrohir

    Elrohir RELATIONAL VALORIZATION

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2004
    Messages:
    12,507
    Everyone deserves hell. You, me, Johnny Depp, whoever. We're all imperfect and flawed humans who need to be saved by Christ.

    They don't. Everyone could choose God, but they don't.
     
  16. Narz

    Narz keeping it real

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2002
    Messages:
    28,156
    Location:
    St. Petersburg, Florida
    Interesting theory. So basically what you're saying is that everything is already predestined. The movie is playing (so to speak) and no one can change the storyline (including God). So basically God only ever had power in the very beginning when he set the game in motion (kind of like I had when I created the cast for my NarzWarz simulation) and now he is just an innocent bystander watching his drama unfold, even more powerless to change things than the average Joe (because at least we have free will)? Right.

    Or can God only change things thru Jesus? That would make sense, make the game a little more fun and challenging for him, that he could only influence the game thru his son, who to make things more complicated would also have free will. Interesting... Hmmm, wait my theory doesn't work because God did do some interfering back in the old testament (smiteing and stuff).
     
  17. Narz

    Narz keeping it real

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2002
    Messages:
    28,156
    Location:
    St. Petersburg, Florida
    Maybe cause he's so bitter. If a girl told me "If you don't date me I will torture you for all eternity" I wouldn't be too enamored with her either.
     
  18. FriendlyFire

    FriendlyFire Codex WMDicanious

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Messages:
    19,949
    Location:
    Sydney
    I thought I had answered the question of why god allows suffering elsewhere.

    other animals are not "sentient" we humans are.
     
  19. vbraun

    vbraun Raytracing

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2003
    Messages:
    3,530
    Location:
    Arizona, USA
    My question was "Who created God?"

    And I only asked for part of the answer. Any size will do.
     
  20. Quasar1011

    Quasar1011 King of Sylvania

    Joined:
    May 17, 2003
    Messages:
    2,968
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    California
    It is interesting how your double-speak actually brings out a Biblical truth. Yes, from God's perspective (outside of time), the problem of evil has already been solved. From our perspective (along our universe's timeline), it has not. We are still trying to get from point A (the introduction of evil) to point B (evil's final demise). Most of us cannot see or fathom point B, but it is there- along our timeline, in the future. We are living in God's plan to resolve this question. But, to say the problem of evil does not exist... well, buddy, look at the world around you!
     

Share This Page