Why did Western civilization become more advanced?

[innonimatu]

I was under the impression that was how most medieval navies functioned until cannons became common. The king decided he needed boats and sent out messengers to the towns obligated to provide boats to him. Those towns sent messengers to captains operating under charter from the town and told them the king needs to you to carry his collection of angry violent guys from point A to point B.

England or France might have a big enough size to use a system of requiring several cities to provide ships. England's navy in particular was notably disorganized at least up until (and including) Elizabeth's reign. It was sheer luck and castilan incompetence that they deflected Philip II's armada. And France had its two coasts each requiring a fleet. But most states were small, they would have a principal port for their navy.

I know a little more about medieval Mediterranean navies, and all the notable ones I can think of were from early on state controlled. Often they might hire more ships sure, but Genoa is the only case that I can think of where a major fleet was "privately operated" (Genoa was an unusual state, being unusually oligarchic even for that age). Portugal's kings had set up a navy to defend against the Moroccan raiders. Aragon got a navy when it merged with the county of Barcelona, and expanded it from there under royal control. Castile had two coasts (Andalusia and Asturias/Galicia) but also had royal control over the navy from early on. None of the rulers of these early territorial states wanted to depend on hiring boats ad-hoc.

 

[Kyriakos]

Much before the western upstarts ( ) the Byzantine Empire had two of its Themes produce only naval units (marinemen, at least; not sure who produced the actual fleet). Iirc those were the themata of Attica and Smyrna. The rest produced army units.

 

[Hrothbern]

Afaik the largest private navy ever in operation was the VOC's. I don't know to what degree the uniter provinces may have used VOC ships ding their many occasional wars. But they did use them
Earlier Genoa had also hired ships, frequently from its own magnates. But Genoa was, like the dutch later, a "state" ruled by merchants. Those were the exceptions, not the rule.

The Dutch VOC (1602-1800) had her own Navy. In the heydays around 1700, 50% of all VOC employees were soldiers. At the start of the VOC, her main naval wars were to clear Portugese positions in Asia. The first century mainly to conquer positions, the second century defending positions. The last big fight, the 4th war between Britain and the VOC/Dutch Republic, around 1780, crippled the treasure chest of the VOC and the state, already affected by corruption.

EDIT:
In general direct wars in the North Sea between the Dutch Republic and Britain, 4 in total, plus innumerous incidents, were done by the state navy fleet, supported by some ships of the VOC, up to being financially compensated by the state for damage and losses. The VOC ships were for actions abroad.

Dutch economy was also substantially boosted by shipbuilding.
A big breakthrough came in 1597 when the crankshaft was industrialised full scale in combination with windmills. This allowed to saw planks in mass production. The logistal hub position at the mouth of the Rhine, supported an unlimited supply of oak wood (!!!) for the heavy duty parts of the ships. The unlimited supply of local peat allowed for hot bending the wood. The ship was just the end product of a very big international supply chain, like car manufacturing now.
The general management know-how was also substantially boosted by shipbuilding. One of the biggest buildings in Amsterdam was build in 1655 in 9 months only !
Without 24x7, excel, word, software, management guru's. Just plain craftsmen used to build ships in no-time.

 

[FashGordon]

Formidable competetion.

Europe is probably the most culturally diverse continent on Earth per km squared. Traditional European society was also very competitive compared to other parts of the world, so much so that Europeans have a very long history of overthrowing tyrannical goverments which ended up leading to a lot of advancements, rather than stagnation. The European monarchies also proved to be a quite effective form of government during their time and were focused on advancement and empire building.

 

[Traitorfish]

You don't see a contradiction between claiming that Europe is the most culturally diverse region of the world, and then making continent- and millenia-spanning generalisations that "Europeans have a history of X" and "European governments were like Y"?

 

[FashGordon]

You don't see a contradiction between claiming that Europe is the most culturally diverse region of the world, and then making continent- and millenia-spanning generalisations that "Europeans have a history of X" and "European governments were like Y"?

Not at all.

European cultures are diverse in terms of traditions, folk lore, languages, art, history, etc., but all share a common cultural foundation.

 

[schlaufuchs]

Not at all.

European cultures are diverse in terms of traditions, folk lore, languages, art, history, etc., but all share a common cultural foundation.

So they are diverse in all the constituent elements that comprise a culture, right.

 

[FashGordon]

So they are diverse in all the constituent elements that comprise a culture, right.

I really don't think my statement is that hard to discipher, but to reiterate, Europe is a continent with many distinct cultures per square km. There are of course similarities among them, but it's also very easy to differentiate French culture from German, or English culture, for example.

 

[Ajidica]

There are of course similarities, but it's also very easy to differentiate French culture from German, or English culture.

Is it though?
Aside from language the only things I can think of separating them is that English have bad food, the French have a superiority complex, and the Germans have weird comedy. That's not much to go on. Surely there is at least as much differentiating the Parsi, Tamil, and Gujarati in India; or the Fulani, Igbo, and Hausa in Nigeria!

 

[schlaufuchs]

More: Tamil is in a different language family from Parsi and Gujarati.

 

[FashGordon]

Is it though?
Aside from language the only things I can think of separating them is that English have bad food, the French have a superiority complex, and the Germans have weird comedy. That's not much to go on. Surely there is at least as much differentiating the Parsi, Tamil, and Gujarati in India; or the Fulani, Igbo, and Hausa in Nigeria!

I could also just as easily say that all of India has great food for clearing out your colon, a low quality of life, and bad infrastructure, but that's not much to go on either and really doesn't do much to prove any point whatsoever.

 

[Ajidica]

The ethnic diversity in India and Nigeria is just as great, if not greater than, what can be found in western Europe.

If you want to demonstrate how "English", "French", and "German" culture both exists as discrete things that can be compared and how their differences are greater than what can be found in other regions of the world (to support your theory that ethnic/cultural diversity is what caused the global dominance of western Europe) please do so.
Otherwise this is probably going to devolve into me making fun of the English.

 

[FashGordon]

The ethnic diversity in India and Nigeria is just as great, if not greater than, what can be found in western Europe.

I was talking about the entire continent of Europe in comparison to all other continents and last I checked India and Nigeria aren't continents.

If you want to demonstrate how "English", "French", and "German" culture both exists as discrete things that can be compared and how their differences are greater than what can be found in other regions of the world (to support your theory that ethnic/cultural diversity is what caused the global dominance of western Europe) please do so.
Otherwise this is probably going to devolve into me making fun of the English.

I'm not into having a pedantic debate over a very straightforward statement. In all honestly, the fact that you refer to all 3 of those groups as different groups is self-evident that enough of a difference between the 3 exists to warrant separate names to distinguish them from each other.

 

[Ajidica]

I was talking about the entire continent of Europe in comparison to all other continents and last I checked India and Nigeria aren't continents.

A) Geologically speaking, Europe isn't a continent as there is no tectonic activity separating it from Asia.
B) India is generally regarded as a subcontinent.
C) If we are expanding the region to continents, then Africa has Europe beat by miles. I mean, Africa is big enough you can comfortably fit most of western Europe inside one of its countries.

Spoiler :

I'm not into having a pedantic debate over a very straightforward statement. In all honestly, the fact that you refer to all 3 of those groups as different groups is self-evident that enough of a difference between the 3 exists to warrant separate names to distinguish them from each other.

I can call Minnesotans, Iowans, and Wisconsinites by separate names. Doesn't mean much though.

 

[FashGordon]

Lol, give it up already. Seriously.

 

[Hygro]

Ajidica stop being a jerk fash tell us more about the comparative diversity you've studied

 

[Ajidica]

Lol, give it up already. Seriously.

I take this means no, you won't describe how "French", "English", and "German" culture differ?

 

[FashGordon]

Ajidica stop being a jerk fash tell us more about the comparative diversity you've studied

Having traveled to all of the countries mentioned and having blood relations in all 3 I think it would be safe for you to take my word for it when I say they are different.

I take this means no, you won't describe how "French", "English", and "German" culture differ?

No, because it's a waste of my time.

 

[schlaufuchs]

Having traveled to all of the countries mentioned and having blood relations in all 3 I think it would be safe for you to take my word for it when I say they are different.

I have been to all 3. I have lived in one of the three. I speak German and French. I‘m in a Master’s program for German History. I honestly have no idea what you’re on about.

 

[Ajidica]

No, because it's a waste of my time.

Waste of time for you to explain how examples you brought up support your own theory?

I mean, seems legit.