Why do you or don't you believe in God?

[Squonk]

Again this is just your biased point of view because you live in Poland and you were taught to think so. Point is that Stalin did what he did to avoid a war with Germany because he had no allies. Surely what Russia did in Poland is not to be acclaimed, but I believe Hitler would have invaded Poland with or without Stalin, and he believed the same, so instead of remaining passive and waiting to be the next, he decided to sign that alliance. You know what happened afterwards though...

You, western Europeans have somekind of naive belief in clarity of Soviet intentions.

Don't You think it's interesting that SU eventually took almost exactly what it kept after ww2? And that it was it that insisted that none of two powers shall create a puppet Polish state?
How can one believe that one allies with his greatest enemy to destroy the only buffor state (and by the way destroys other independant states in the region) just to remain safe?

 

[onedreamer]

I can very well believe it and I think anyone would have done the same (including Polish), if you can't believe it, well it's your opinion.
You should blame instead France and UK, they didn't do anything to obstacolate the expansionist politics of Hitler until when he invaded Poland, which means too late for Stalin. He could not wait for them to wake up when Hitler would have been already at his borders. And btw I remind you that USSR fought with Allies in WW2.

 

[onedreamer]

Maybe we are talking without enough defined terms. By universe, I mean the physical universe. If we were talkiing about existence, which is "larger" in my mind than the universe, then I agree, that is beyond science and what reason can comprehend. God is that which is eternal, infinite, unchanging and permanent.

We are both talking of the same (physical) universe. In fact, I don't believe in soul and God. Since when Universe has been fully explored, explained and studied by human science ? AFAIK, there's only a bunch of unproven theories about physical and temporal dimensions of Universe.

 

[Birdjaguar]

We are both talking of the same (physical) universe. In fact, I don't believe in soul and God. Since when Universe has been fully explored, explained and studied by human science ? AFAIK, there's only a bunch of unproven theories about physical and temporal dimensions of Universe.

For someone who claims a "scientific and pramaticl mind", you certainly don't give science much credit. Nor do you provde any evidence for your postions beyond your own thinking. Can you show evidence that disputes the big bang? Is the red shifting of starlight incorrect?

Actually, you're turning everything upside-down. A finite universe cannot keep expanding because it has limits, an infinite universe can keep expanding indefinitely. It's exactly the contrary of what you think...

Please explain to me how inifinte and expand indefinitely mean the same thing and then tell me what is the source of energy that will allow for such an indefinite expansion.

Everything regarding the birth of universe, its dimensions, its life etc , is nothing like science. All scientists have are a collection of theories and hypothesis, which cannot be considered a "Science". What I tried to explain from the first post in this regard and that maybe you missed, is that most probably, our science cannot explain everything about universe, because our science is not an absolute concept but something made up by us, and thus measured on us. I doubt our science will ever be able to fully explain the concept of "infinite", because we are finite beings with finite minds and vision.
Close your eyes and try to imagine an infinite universe. Can you do it ? Can you count infinitely ? The answer is no, you can't, because you're life is finite.

To say that science will not be able to fully explain the universe is a "silly" truth. Of course its true, we won't even be able to visit any but a tiny portion of it, let alone explain it all. But so what? I can't figure where all this is going. Are you saying that science isn't perfect? Does mathematics count? Or is that just a bunch of theories too? If you are trying to support your "theory" that the universe is infinite, please provide us some evidence.

 

[onedreamer]

Why do you ask me to explain you what is infinite when I already told you we can't conceive it, why do you ask me to give evidences when I just told you we have no evidences about the birth of universe but just theories ? Sheez, make up your confused mind. You ask me to bring evidences on the fact that we have no real evidences of the temporal and physical dimensions of universe ?
Mathematics sure does count to help us in our limited human life. Now think on how Mathematics deal with the "number" infinite and tell me how precise of a science it is when it comes to such a concept

 

[bigfatron]

I believe in God because he seems to be real to me according to my experiences. It is all about faith really.

I know a lot of you guys believe that love between humans exist, and I think the reasons why I believe God exist is very similar to the reasons why you believe love exists. I of course don’t believe in love for many reasons. You guys are so good at explaining why:

-I don't believe in love simply because I don't need to. I'm sure if I needed love and a partner to live my life day to day, I could convince myself that all that was real.

-I think, above all else, it is a waste of time.

-I don't believe in love because it makes no sense to me and I only believe things that make at least some sort of sense to me. That's basically it.

-Because it is irrational and foolish...

-I do not believe in love because I hate organized marriages and how it turns people into mindless drones (at least it does around here.)

-I don't believe in love because I've never encountered any thought-model requiring such a thing.

-I don't believe in love simply because I have no reason to. I don't necessarily think love doesn't exist, but you could say that about anything, really. I put as much weight in love as I do in Star Wars.

OK - now 'love' is a word that we use, we invented, to describe a feeling that we enjoy - you can go into a long decription of body chemistry if you like, or regard it as simply a well-recognised feeling that we can pretty much all relate to. There are numerous different forms of love we feel, protective love for our children, comfortable love for a partner, lustful love, impersonal love (for a football team for instance, or a country), etc, etc. Thus a word is used to describe a generic set of feelings or emotions.

But love has no independent existence outside our bodies - we can test this: if there was no life on earth would there still be love? Of course not - love has no independent existence.

equating belief in love and belief in god is interesting - it appears that you agree that 'god' is a term invented to conceptualise our emotions, particularly those applying to fear of the unknown and inexplicable.

Personally I agree that 'god' and 'love' are similar concepts as you say, both descriptions invented by humans to describe a portfolio of broadly felt emotions with no independent existence.

The problem arises in an attempt to externalise 'god' - just as there is no independent, metaphysical sea of love lapping around us that would exist if we were not here, so - according to your analogy - there is no independent god watching our every step.

 

[superisis]

One believes in God because one knows he exists. End of story.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

I spent a good part of my life running from god, only to find I was running from myself

 

[Squonk]

I can very well believe it and I think anyone would have done the same (including Polish), if you can't believe it, well it's your opinion.
You should blame instead France and UK, they didn't do anything to obstacolate the expansionist politics of Hitler until when he invaded Poland,

Surely, I blame them as well, but it's completely else not to do anything and just sit and stare and participate in a crime.

which means too late for Stalin. He could not wait for them to wake up when Hitler would have been already at his borders.

So, not to wait to have Hitler at his boarders, Stalin actually created Soviet-German boarder?

And btw I remind you that USSR fought with Allies in WW2.

Only because it was attacked by Germany.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I spent a good part of my life running from god, only to find I was running from myself

Welcome back in your new incarnation DP/BE. And don't forget that "Be" is an action verb.

 

[Atlas14]

I believe in God because thats just what I believe in. I have never grown up going to church, in fact I have only been once or twice and it was with one of my friends. I don't really like to be a part of organized religion since most are corrupt and each will tell you slightly different things, but my faith in God remains. I do not find it so unbelievable that a higher being exists, but thats just me.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Welcome back in your new incarnation DP/BE. And don't forget that "Be" is an action verb.

Hey I like that, hadnt thought of it yet. I'll try to keep that in mind

Sincerely,
BE

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Odd question.
Why should I believe in God? Could as well believe in the advent of the Great White Handkerchief.
I fail to see even the slightest prove for the existance of an intervening God (or several of those ). If someone feels like believing the universe pre-"Big Bang" was made by a Creator, well, your choice. As plausible as anything else before that point.
But after that? Only a construction for those who cannot accept everything is based on coincidence, and there is no deeper sense in anything around.

 

[Squonk]

Forgot to add: if SU only annected Baltic states and half of Poland to secure against Hitler's attack, why didn't it return them freedom after the danger has passed?

 

[Birdjaguar]

Odd question.
Why should I believe in God? Could as well believe in the advent of the Great White Handkerchief.
I fail to see even the slightest prove for the existance of an intervening God (or several of those ).

You shouldn't. There are no "reasons" of sufficient weight to convince you or anyone else that god is real. Don't waste your time. Spend your time pursuing those things that you love.
God has been, is, and will be; and doesn't need your support or adoration or attention.

 

[King Alexander]

Well, let's say that I had the power to create a super-creature(that knows everything and will reserve 'paradise-seats' for the 'good', blah, blah, blah...) that humans percieved as God. --- So what?

What people would expect from a creature(not 'God') that has more powers than themselves? To pay their rent, buy them a new car, find them a wife/husband?

One does what he does, because it's good for him, personally, it's good for it's own life, and doesn't do something to satisfy the 'ego' of a hypothetical creature.

People rule this planet because they were intelligent in comparison with the various animals that were/are superior in physical advantages.

I'm surely free at my heart, and I'm not a slave of any God. I choose my destiny, whether 'God/s' like it or not(if they existed outside people's minds, that is...)

 

[CurtSibling]

I am always happy to see the free minds at work in this thread.

You know who you are!

 

[anarchywrksbest]

A good God wouldn't have taken away my brother. Religious people can argue about proof of God's existence but if he does exist then he is a bastard.

 

[FearlessLeader2]

A good God wouldn't have taken away my brother. Religious people can argue about proof of God's existence but if he does exist then he is a bastard.

God didn't do anything to your brother. Anyone who says otherwise is selling something.

Bad things happen to good and bad people because Satan is running the show right now. He challenged God's authority in the Garden, and since then, we've been experiencing his version of 'doing a better job of running things than God'.

God's turn is coming, and that right soon.

 

[Birdjaguar]

God didn't do anything to your brother. Anyone who says otherwise is selling something.

I agree. Your brother was here and now he is not. For you the world changed; it changed without your permission or power to stop it. I don't know how or when your brother died, but I'm sure the cause was not sufficient reason in your mind. In your pain and frustration you see it as a bad thing; you see the change as a net negative in your life. I am sorry for your loss.

Pain and frustration are fully integrated into this universe as are joy and happiness. They are inseparable. Change is what the universe is all about, change at every level, all the time. Most changes we cope with just fine; when major ones (to us) occur, we think about them differently and want reasons and guilty parties. On top of that, your conception of god failed to deliver an adequate explanation when you wanted one. Perhaps your concept of god is inadequate.

I would contend that the issue is not why does change (good and bad) happen, but how we deal with change and the emotions it brings to the surface. The problem is "in us" and not "out there".

If, as FL2 suggests, god is on schedule to bring some real changes, well all bets are off...