Why does Firaxis still use BC and AD?

[Krajzen]

By the way, I would love if there was an alternate option to use calendars different from Christian one.

For example once you found Islam, your calendar switches to Islamic year 0 and earlier years are referred to as "x years before Hijra".

Civ5 already sort of did this trick with Mayan calendar UA!

 

[Ryika]

In my opinion there's no point worrying about what the so called 'global norm' might be, there are different norms for different contexts.

It's important when you create a game for an audience that consists of members from all slices of life. By declaring the "global norm" to be irrelevant, you're essentially giving up the ability to make judgement calls based on statistics. This is not that important in this case, because whether it's BC/AD or BCE/CE will hardly make a difference for people (which is why this whole thread is basically a lot of hot air over nothing to begin with - fun to argue about, but in the end nothing is gained either way), but in other contexts it matters a lot.

Imagine you're making a game and only have the budget to localize it for a few languages, so what do you do? Well, you go with the global standard, which is English, and then some other popular languages that are used in areas where you expect to be able to get an audience big enough to make a good profit. In your framework, a "global standard" for language does not exist, because English isn't being taught everywhere and people who lack proper education any language other than their own will always be one they hardly understand, even if they were taught basic knowledge about it in school. If you declare statistics to be irrelevant to the choice that is the "right" one, we basically have no anchor point to even start making decisions here.

 

[Mr Jon of Cheam]

Context is everything.

No one has collected reliable global statistics on the usage of BC/AD Vs BCE/CE because it's too trivial.

That certainly doesn't make all statistics irrelevant.

Probably should stop here, it's going a bit off topic.

 

[Josephias]

Just to add my two cents: ¿does someone realize that asking changing the "reference" calendar according to civilization is akin to asking changing the UI language depending on the civilization you play with?. Of course, it would be inmersive, but ¿would you manage the menus written in arabic when playing as Saladin or in greek as Pericles?.

Said this, the more options the better, as games are localized, the calendar could be as well. Currenlty this is nearly no space problem, therefore, I'm all in favour of having an UI option allowing you to change to the calendar you prefer, even asfking for it to be civilization-based. But, as an UI option, it makes sense to be linked to the player, not the game.

That is the reason as well to have the reference calendar. For the player to compare his "achievements" against the history he has been taught (of course, this is still not fine-tuned in Civ VI: but ¿how would be know if not by the calendar?). In that sense, it would seem more reasonable that the calendar changes according to the localized version (i.e. use the Chinese calendar for china release) - and to avoid issues, as soon as it is possible, make it available the option to "switch" versions (as it is now with languages).

Finally, I'm no native english speaker, neither living in any english-speaking country, so the discussion BC/AD or BCE/CE seems quite sterile to me. As some pointed out is just "dressing" a christian based calendar for it not to be seen as christian based calendar (but a common convention), yet still being a christian based calendar... (in other words, it looks like one of these cases were political correctness shows it can do quite pointless weird things).

 

[Hanaboshi]

Just to add my two cents: ¿does someone realize that asking changing the "reference" calendar according to civilization is akin to asking changing the UI language depending on the civilization you play with?. Of course, it would be inmersive, but ¿would you manage the menus written in arabic when playing as Saladin or in greek as Pericles?.

Said this, the more options the better, as games are localized, the calendar could be as well. Currenlty this is nearly no space problem, therefore, I'm all in favour of having an UI option allowing you to change to the calendar you prefer, even asfking for it to be civilization-based. But, as an UI option, it makes sense to be linked to the player, not the game.

That is the reason as well to have the reference calendar. For the player to compare his "achievements" against the history he has been taught (of course, this is still not fine-tuned in Civ VI: but ¿how would be know if not by the calendar?). In that sense, it would seem more reasonable that the calendar changes according to the localized version (i.e. use the Chinese calendar for china release) - and to avoid issues, as soon as it is possible, make it available the option to "switch" versions (as it is now with languages).

Finally, I'm no native english speaker, neither living in any english-speaking country, so the discussion BC/AD or BCE/CE seems quite sterile to me. As some pointed out is just "dressing" a christian based calendar for it not to be seen as christian based calendar (but a common convention), yet still being a christian based calendar... (in other words, it looks like one of these cases were political correctness shows it can do quite pointless weird things).

It would just making majority of the players feels frustrated and confused, especially when western world's market is the target market for Firaxis. I agree with the other comments that changing the calendar into CE/BCE is extremely trivial and it is already the common calendar system used globally for decades. What's the actual problem with using a christian based calendar when it has nothing to do with religious purpose anymore ?

 

[Disgustipated]

I'm actually somewhat surprised at the poll results myself. As I said above, I believe many civ players are older, and are just fine with the "way we grew up with".

Which makes me wonder. Do we have a thread polling the age of users here? I won't make another one if we already have one. I am curious what the average age of Civ6 forum peeps.

 

[Vandlys]

Imagine Civ6 being at a state where stuff like this was worth debating about?

Take a seat and chill out, op.

Lol, I'm very chill I assure you : P Did I come off any other way?

I would say of all the things in my life to get concerned about it ranks dead last.

Okay : ) I noticed it, was interested to see it, and apparently you found it important enough to voice your opinion about it : ) If you voted, thanks!

I abstained from voting, because I prefer one based on the system the civ you're playing as uses, which is not listed.

Very good point! I've added it : )


I would find it more logical if a different counting was used, but I don't mind that much in real life. In Civ though, I found it quite strange seeing as they are set on creating the illusion of you starting your own empire from scratch. You could argue it's only on the UI, and so it's for the player, which would make sense. Still, seeing that Firaxis takes care to pay attention to minor details in a lot of other matters (music, clothing style, backgrounds, etc.) I found this strange.
To people saying "It's what I know, so it's more identifiable", I wonder why not keeping the architecture western? Surely you recognise a palace quicker if it looks like your country's palace? Nah, I'm being silly, I hear you say. I'm just trying to say I would like it better if even the timer was more immersive : )

I guess the question is, what things do we want to keep so we feel a connection to real life, and what things do we want to be able to change to make it feel we are creating our own civilization?

 

[PhilBowles]

I would find it more logical if a different counting was used, but I don't mind that much in real life. In Civ though, I found it quite strange seeing as they are set on creating the illusion of you starting your own empire from scratch. You could argue it's only on the UI, and so it's for the player, which would make sense. Still, seeing that Firaxis takes care to pay attention to minor details in a lot of other matters (music, clothing style, backgrounds, etc.) I found this strange.
To people saying "It's what I know, so it's more identifiable", I wonder why not keeping the architecture western? Surely you recognise a palace quicker if it looks like your country's palace? Nah, I'm being silly, I hear you say. I'm just trying to say I would like it better if even the timer was more immersive : )

I guess the question is, what things do we want to keep so we feel a connection to real life, and what things do we want to be able to change to make it feel we are creating our own civilization?

In the earliest Civ games, when the date bore some relationship to the rate of tech development, I always enjoyed trying to get to a key tech like Gunpowder before it emerged in reality. These days that's not a very worthwhile exercise given how fast teching is.

 

[nzcamel]

There may be fewer posters here who are interested in history than anecdotal observation would lead you to expect.

The history enthusiasts are possibly just louder, as they always seem to be complaining about some perceived historical inaccuracy or another.

I think most people who love history are used to reading sources that use the older system. And they aren't all progressives who want to drive all possible references to Christianity out of the records.

 

[PhilBowles]

There's no very clear reason Firaxis can't add a toggle in settings that lets people change the notation from BC/AD to BCE/CE if they care particularly, since that doesn't affect the calendar dates.

 

[nzcamel]

There's no very clear reason Firaxis can't add a toggle in settings that lets people change the notation from BC/AD to BCE/CE if they care particularly, since that doesn't affect the calendar dates.

Given the results of the one known poll to exist on this (above)... they ain't going to add it.

 

[mitsho]

It would be really flavourful to me if every civilization would use their own calendar, but I guess it's a lot of work for minimal effect. It seems easy to create names for the spies in comparison. But I do think it'd be very worthwhile.

 

[God of Kings]

It would be really flavourful to me if every civilization would use their own calendar, but I guess it's a lot of work for minimal effect. It seems easy to create names for the spies in comparison. But I do think it'd be very worthwhile.

Good thing the option has just been added. I voted for the new option, which is using a calendar similar to the one used by the civ you're playing as.

 

[liv]

Good thing the option has just been added. I voted for the new option, which is using a calendar similar to the one used by the civ you're playing as.

I assume many countries use the Gregorian calendar for years and dates but also an alternate traditional calendar. Then what?

 

[Xur]

Isn't it strange that a game embracing so many different cultures, and one that allows a rewrite of history, still uses BC, instead of a different counter?

I wouldn't mind seeing the counter start at 0 and tally up till 12.000, or simply them changing BC to BCE and AD to CE, just to forego the obvious connection to Christianity.

What do you guys think?

Are you not in 2017 like the rest of us? Stupid suggestions... and I dont believe in religion at all... this is culture and history more than religion.

 

[evanaurora]

I think most people who love history are used to reading sources that use the older system. And they aren't all progressives who want to drive all possible references to Christianity out of the records.

I wrote out a serious response, but I don't think I need to post it, because I hope that we can all accept that a minor change in annotation is not even a little close to lib****s rewriting history, yes?

Anyway, all this reaction over the mere discussion of said minor change in annotation... it's something else. I just want to say, for the record, that no one is Triggered by seeing "AD" after a year in the game;; I have seen no one writing screeds about how Bad and Evil the old system was. It's just that the new system is better. It makes the normative calendar slightly more secular and accessible! This is not religious persecution of Christians (lol)- the faith of my family, a faith that I personally think is absolutely, even in its worst moments, beautiful and transcendent. It's a harmless, absolutely common and familiar way to make things slightly more inclusive to non-Christians. I'm sorry, but I just can't believe that anyone would actually be thrown by the change if they made it. We'd all get used to it and move on with our lives and civ-playing.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

AD/BC gives me a good frame of reference for where I am in the game compared to the "Real World" so would like it to stay. The CE vs AD issue has always seemed kind of silly to me, to be honest. It's the same thing!

I guess I wouldn't have an issue with them giving other options as long as they didn't expend too many resources on it.

 

[Ever Adrift]

I'm actually somewhat surprised at the poll results myself. As I said above, I believe many civ players are older, and are just fine with the "way we grew up with".

Which makes me wonder. Do we have a thread polling the age of users here? I won't make another one if we already have one. I am curious what the average age of Civ6 forum peeps.

I'm 33 myself; finishing up my dissertation to complete my PhD in comparative politics. I regularly use historical research methods and teach a course on world governments and political history. Personally, I can't remember running across a single history or political science textbook that did not use CE/BCE and I receive a lot of textbooks to review. Simply from that standpoint, college students in the US - and presumably the UK and Canada - are now using CE/BCE. The same is almost certainly true for textbooks geared towards elementary and secondary education as well. Younger generations are learning CE/BCE - the transition was occuring when I was in high school, college - I assume that most people over, say, 30+ years old are more familiar with AD/BC while those below, say, 25 years old largely know only CE/BCE.

 

[Vandlys]

Are you not in 2017 like the rest of us? Stupid suggestions... and I dont believe in religion at all... this is culture and history more than religion.

Is it really necessary to call things stupid just because you don't agree with them? At least you could say "I think they're stupid". My country indeed calls the current year 2017. Nowhere did I ask for a change of the calender system used in my country. However, I would like to note that many people in the world would indeed not say the year is 2017. Who exactly are these "us" you refer to in "the rest of us"? Surely not the billion Chinese citizens of the world?

 

[Hanaboshi]

Is it really necessary to call things stupid just because you don't agree with them? At least you could say "I think they're stupid". My country indeed calls the current year 2017. Nowhere did I ask for a change of the calender system used in my country. However, I would like to note that many people in the world would indeed not say the year is 2017. Who exactly are these "us" you refer to in "the rest of us"? Surely not the billion Chinese citizens of the world?

I think his opinion may represent the Chinese opinions since those billion Chinese citizens all over the world you are talking about used the Gregorian calendars since the early 20th century. If it is about cultural or religious purpose, what about creating a mod instead that able to show both the western year and the cultural year you choose instead ?