Why is flag waiving considered bad?

[usarmy18]

and cheer as they are taken away in the name of security.

Having fun repeating yourself?

That would be the fourth amendment, which has effectively been ground to nothing in the past 40 years.

Proof?

"free speech zones" grind away the first

Gee, from what I understand, people can still say what they want.

the "assault weapons bans" ground away at the second during the clinton years

The assault weapons ban was lifted early on in the Bush Administration.

And every year, the tenth is watered down as the federal government assumes more and more power.

I agree. Our country is getting more socialist (big government, Roosevelt's brain child) both economically and civilly (spelling?).

The thing is, once it is ground away, it is never given back.

Unless repealed by the Supreme Court or Congress. Or forcefully taken back by arms. The future isn't so dark Neomega. If I ever truly believed that the government was becoming more authoritorian or tyranic, then I would more then likely take up arms against it.

It means nothing to you now, USARMY18, because all you have known is an administration and government with which you agreed. Just wait until the tables turn.

Wrong. I was a teen during the Clinton Administration and I really see no difference between now and then. If anything, there was more cause to be alarmed at having a tyranic government back then, then there is now. With the Anti-Gun movement that was all over the place back then and, like you said, the banning of Assault Rifles. Which would effectively destroy our Second Ammendment rights. Plus, the main thing I remember, was when Clinton signed into law the current ratings system and age requirements we have for video games and movies now.

 

[Global Nexus]

I'm not even going to bother reading the rest of the thread...it's really gotten predictable around here as of late.

People who are "flag wavers" are bad because they ignore all logic, evidence, and morality to "support the country". These sorts of people cannot fathom that not supporting something the government is doing might be useful. Essentially, "Jingoism" and "Flag Waving" are synonomous in my eyes.

 

[garric]

I'm not even going to bother reading the rest of the thread...it's really gotten predictable around here as of late.

People who are "flag wavers" are bad because they ignore all logic, evidence, and morality to "support the country". These sorts of people cannot fathom that not supporting something the government is doing might be useful. Essentially, "Jingoism" and "Flag Waving" are synonomous in my eyes.

Yes, as opposed to people who ignore all logic, evidence, and sanity by believing everything the liberals write on the internet and the videos like Farenheit 9/11 and Loose Change?

 

[North King]

So... you didn't really want to discuss why flag-waving was associated negatively, just start another Liberal vs. Conservative thread?

 

[usarmy18]

I think he brought up the point that alot of so called Progressive Liberals are labeling anyone that waves a flag as an imbred, ********, moron. So I'd say they started it. Tag. You're it.

 

[North King]

Erm... I suggest you take a good look at the bookshelves of the nation. "How to Talk to a Liberal (if you must)". "Traitors". "Liberalism is a mental disorder".

Sorry, sir, but the Liberals aren't doing the worst fingerpointing in this era.

 

[MobBoss]

and cheer as they are taken away in the name of security.

I find that I have not had a single "right" taken away in the name of security..and neither have you. Oh its repeated enough so that its made to appear that the brownshirts haul anyone off who questions the administration, but thats simply not true. Nothing that this administration has done has stripped you nor I of any right we had 5, 10 or however long ago in our lives.

That would be the fourth amendment, which has effectively been ground to nothing in the past 40 years.

Nope. Your 4th amendment rights are pretty much exactly the same as they were 40 years ago...well, mine are as I am over 40.....

"free speech zones" grind away the first

Not at all. There is an expectation for our political leaders to be able to give speech like the presidents address without interruption from anarchists and people whose sole aim is to deny freedom of speech to those they are opposed to.

the "assault weapons bans" ground away at the second during the clinton years

You feel the need to own a fully automatic weapon? I dont.

And every year, the tenth is watered down as the federal government assumes more and more power.

I am all for a smaller government...but I hardly see its growth as an attack on my civil rights.

The thing is, once it is ground away, it is never given back.

Incorrect. In your own example, hasnt the Assault Weapons Ban pretty much been lifted/altered to what it was during the Clinton years?

It means nothing to you now, USARMY18, because all you have known is an administration and government with which you agreed. Just wait until the tables turn.

I have been around long enough to see the "tables turn" from Carter to present day President Bush. I think you overplay the true situation to the hilt. Its all pretty much cyclic and it will run its course. With or without such sensationalism.

 

[bathsheba666]

So 50%+ of the americans that voted were "blind patriotic dumbasses"? You sound like John Kerrys elitist wife when she said only a moron would vote for Bush.

Keep saying that stuff.....it drives moderates to the right in droves.

Mmm, choose between an elitist perspective or yours?

Tough call....

To your main point, however, you may want to re-parse my quote and see if you still really think it means the same as you state.
I'll give you a second chance. Logic101 should be indulged, here.

 

[usarmy18]

I'd go for MobBosses in a second. I hate it when people insuniate I'm a moron for thinking the way I do.

 

[bathsheba666]

I'd go for MobBosses in a second. I hate it when people insuniate I'm a moron for thinking the way I do.

Well if you feel the need to prove you're not - and I'm sure you'll find it fairly easy to do this - you might start by pointing out the flaw in Mobboss's deconstruction of my quote.

Of course, in proving you're not, you would leave Mobboss with an exercise or two....

 

[Azadre]

I've been watching a few liberal media stations and most of them are talking about 4th of July and saying stuff like: "Oh it's just a stupid time for flag waivers to blow up a bunch of gunpoweder". Hell, it couldn't go a few minutes without mentioning something vile about waiving a flag.

And from what I've read on these forums there seems to be no love, not even acceptance of waiving flags. Why is this?

Why does everyone always consider a "flag waiver" a blindly patriotic dumbass who probably voted for -ghasp- George W. Bush? What is wrong with showing respect and love for your country?

... Because there are no liberal media stations and you are just full of yourself? As for being a flag waver, it can be used to describe many situations. It can be taken in the literal sense, like one who waves a flag. While it has also come to epitomize the style of argument used by those who blindly support our president. The argument goes that if you disagree with our president, your disagreeing with everything for which this nation stands. The division, created by conservative pundits, is one of flag wavers and non-flag wavers. The purpose is to take something as innocent as flag waving and intertwine it with the very anti-American policies of the Republican party to ensure that people will not dare challenge the policies. I mean, really, who in their right mind would criticize someone for waving a flag? Thus, the linkage serves a great purpose to the conservative ideology. Of course, the ideology is flawed and thus why there is criticism.

 

[usarmy18]

You didn't specifically say that everyone of the 50+% of the American public were blindly patriotic dumbasses that voted for Bush. Just that some of them probably were.

 

[bathsheba666]

Very good. Now why do you think Mobboss can't think that clearly?

Is it because he votes for Bush, and therefore....

..no, it's too easy...

 

[North King]

You didn't specifically say that everyone of the 50+% of the American public were blindly patriotic dumbasses that voted for Bush. Just that some of them probably were.

Given voter turnouts, it's more like 25% of the population voting for Bush, and some of them certainly are blindly patriotic jerks. There are jerks on both sides of the party line; it just seems to many that they're more in control of the party on the Republican side--though I'm biased.

 

[Global Nexus]

Yes, as opposed to people who ignore all logic, evidence, and sanity by believing everything the liberals write on the internet and the videos like Farenheit 9/11 and Loose Change?

Idiots are idiots, regardless. Those who blindly support or oppose anything are fools, as are those who lump an entire group of different individuals into an entirely positive or entirely negative grouping. My "Flag Wavers" just happen to be a loud group of fools that have something to differentiate them from the rest.

 

[emzie]

Waving a flag, buying a 99 cent bumper sticker at a gas station, going to a 4th parade isn't a sum of parts making America. It's a fallacy to believe the loving of one's country or just the superficial displays makes you part of it.

I have been called a traitor (and even a liberal fascist??!) for disagreeing with policies of the government. For taking active interest in how the government works (or doesn't work) and what it does (or doesn't do) and disagreeing on parts, I was labeled by some as unAmerican. My neighbour, who had a faded American flag bumper sticker next to a yellow magnet ribbon and a flag pole in his yard, he was a very good American -- even if he didn't vote, didn't know how Congress worked, didn't understand the court system ect ect ect.

Personally, it was that type rejection that turned me away from "flag wavers." I can't see anyone who blindly follows as someone capable of loving. Sorry for being bitter.

 

[usarmy18]

Very good. Now why do you think Mobboss can't think that clearly?

Is it because he votes for Bush, and therefore....

..no, it's too easy...

Actually it does sound like you were saying what he thought you were if you just glance over it quickly.

 

[garric]

Waving a flag, buying a 99 cent bumper sticker at a gas station, going to a 4th parade isn't a sum of parts making America. It's a fallacy to believe the loving of one's country or just the superficial displays makes you part of it.

I have been called a traitor (and even a liberal fascist??!) for disagreeing with policies of the government. For taking active interest in how the government works (or doesn't work) and what it does (or doesn't do) and disagreeing on parts, I was labeled by some as unAmerican. My neighbour, who had a faded American flag bumper sticker next to a yellow magnet ribbon and a flag pole in his yard, he was a very good American -- even if he didn't vote, didn't know how Congress worked, didn't understand the court system ect ect ect.

Personally, it was that type rejection that turned me away from "flag wavers." I can't see anyone who blindly follows as someone capable of loving. Sorry for being bitter.

When you constantly whine and say "America is a disgrace to the world" and call it's president a moron, a liar, a war criminal, and claim that your god-given rights are being stolen from you right under your nose, I think being called someone un-American is to be expected, no offense.

 

[MobBoss]

Well if you feel the need to prove you're not - and I'm sure you'll find it fairly easy to do this - you might start by pointing out the flaw in Mobboss's deconstruction of my quote.

Of course, in proving you're not, you would leave Mobboss with an exercise or two....

Bath, if that wasnt the direction your quote was going then I humbly apologize. Its just that I have heard that sort of thing so very much (about Bush voters being idiots) that I am simply tired of hearing it.

If I lumped what you said into that without deconstructing what you said accurately, then please accept my apology.

Very good. Now why do you think Mobboss can't think that clearly?

In all reality, if I am not thinking too clearly, its obvious its the whiskey.

 

[bathsheba666]

Actually it does sound like you were saying what he thought you were if you just glance over it quickly.

When you're in a battlefield, just a quick glance can be death.