aronnax
Let your spirit be free
Vietnam shared crap with China, Mongolia, France, Japan and America?
Huh?
Here Here!
Why is Korea in the game?
- Thread starter Bast
- Start date
Vietnam shared crap with China, Mongolia, France, Japan and America?
Huh?
Here Here!
cybrxkhan
Asian Xwedodah
um... it must have been the air in the room! IM BEING POISONED!!!!!!!!!
yes, just a typo. what i meant:
(or at least we could beat the crap out of anybody that tried to invade us)...
I AM A PHO LOVER TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND I INTEND FOR EVERYONE TO EAT IT OR ELSE!!!
I love Pho!! Vermicelli too!! Yay!!
goes to Vietnamese who invented it!
aronnax
Let your spirit be free
I dont like vietnamese food. I prefer sushi or italian
cybrxkhan
Asian Xwedodah
WHAT!!!!!!!
![[pissed]](/images/smilies/pissed.gif "Pissed [pissed]")
MINIONS!!!! TAKE HIM TO THE PHO DUNGEONS!!!!!!!
Spoiler :
and can someone now bash at Korea...
aronnax
Let your spirit be free
WHAT!!!!!!!
MINIONS!!!! TAKE HIM TO THE PHO DUNGEONS!!!!!!!
Spoiler :
and can someone now bash at Korea...
Let me try
Korea is so insignificant.....like vietnamese food and the pho dungeon.
Seriously
![[offtopic]](/images/smilies/offtopic.gif "Offtopic [offtopic]")
Drago Askani
Warlord
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2007
- Messages
- 293
The Koreans, descended from Tungusic tribal peoples, are a distinct racial and cultural group. According to Korean legend, Tangun established Old Choson in NW Korea in 2333 B.C., and the Korean calendar enumerates the years from this date. Chinese sources assert that Ki-tze (Kija), a Shang dynasty refugee, founded a colony at Pyongyang in 1122 B.C., but the first Korean ruler recorded in contemporaneous records is Wiman, possibly a Chinese invader who overthrew Old Choson and established his rule in N Korea in 194 B.C. Chinese forces subsequently conquered (c.100 B.C.) the eastern half of the peninsula. Lolang, near modern Pyongyang, was the chief center of Chinese rule.
Koguryo, a native Korean kingdom, arose in the north on both sides of the Yalu River by the 1st cent. A.D.; tradition says it was founded in 37 B.C. By the 4th cent. A.D. it had conquered Lolang, and at its height under King Kwanggaet’o (r.391–413) occupied much of what is now Korea and NE China. In the 6th and 7th cent. the kingdom resisted several Chinese invasions. Meanwhile in the south, two main kingdoms emerged, Paekche (traditionally founded 18 B.C., but significant beginning c.A.D. 250) in the west and Silla (traditionally founded 57 B.C., but significant beginning c.A.D. 350) in the east. After forming an alliance with T’ang China, Silla conquered Paekche and Koguryo by 668, and then expelled the Chinese and unified much of the peninsula. Remnants of Koguryo formed the kingdom of Parhae (north of the Taedong River and largely in E Manchuria), which lasted until 926.
Under Silla’s rule, Korea prospered and the arts flourished; Buddhism, which had entered Korea in the 4th cent., became dominant in this period. In 935 the Silla dynasty, which had been in decline for a century, was overthrown by Wang Kon, who had established (918) the Koryo dynasty (the name was selected as an abbreviated form of Koguryo and is the source of the name Korea). During the Koryo period, literature was cultivated, and although Buddhism remained the state religion, Confucianism—introduced from China during the Silla years and adapted to Korean customs—controlled the pattern of government. A coup in 1170 led to a period of military rule. In 1231, Mongol forces invaded from China, initiating a war that was waged intermittently for some 30 years. Peace came when Koryo accepted Mongol suzerainty, and a long period of Koryo-Mongol alliance followed. In 1392, Yi Songgye, a general who favored the Ming dynasty (which had replaced the Mongols in China), seized the throne and established the Choson dynasty.
The Choson (or Yi) dynasty, which was to rule until 1910, built a new capital at Hanseong (Seoul) and established Confucianism as the official religion. Early in the dynasty (15th cent.) printing with movable metal type, which had been developed two centuries earlier, became widely used, and the Korean alphabet was developed. The 1592 invasion by the Japanese shogun Hideyoshi was driven back by Choson and Ming forces, but only after six years of great devastation and suffering. Manchu invasions in the first half of the 17th cent. resulted in Korea being made (1637) a tributary state of the Manchu dynasty. Subsequent factional strife gave way, in the 18th cent., to economic prosperity and a cultural and intellectual renaissance. Korea limited its foreign contacts during this period and later resisted, longer than China or Japan, trade with the West, which led to its being called the Hermit Kingdom.
In 1876, Japan forced a commerical treaty with Korea, and to offset the Japanese influence, trade agreements were also concluded (1880s) with the United States and European nations. Japan’s control was tightened after the First Sino-Japanese War (1894–95) and the Russo-Japanese War (1904–5), when Japanese troops moved through Korea to attack Manchuria. These troops were never withdrawn, and in 1905 Japan declared a virtual protectorate over Korea and in 1910 formally annexed the country. The Japanese instituted vast social and economic changes, building modern industries and railroads, but their rule (1910–45) was harsh and exploitative. Sporadic Korean attempts to overthrow the Japanese were unsuccessful, and after 1919 a provisional Korean government, under Syngman Rhee, was established at Shanghai, China.
Koguryo, a native Korean kingdom, arose in the north on both sides of the Yalu River by the 1st cent. A.D.; tradition says it was founded in 37 B.C. By the 4th cent. A.D. it had conquered Lolang, and at its height under King Kwanggaet’o (r.391–413) occupied much of what is now Korea and NE China. In the 6th and 7th cent. the kingdom resisted several Chinese invasions. Meanwhile in the south, two main kingdoms emerged, Paekche (traditionally founded 18 B.C., but significant beginning c.A.D. 250) in the west and Silla (traditionally founded 57 B.C., but significant beginning c.A.D. 350) in the east. After forming an alliance with T’ang China, Silla conquered Paekche and Koguryo by 668, and then expelled the Chinese and unified much of the peninsula. Remnants of Koguryo formed the kingdom of Parhae (north of the Taedong River and largely in E Manchuria), which lasted until 926.
Under Silla’s rule, Korea prospered and the arts flourished; Buddhism, which had entered Korea in the 4th cent., became dominant in this period. In 935 the Silla dynasty, which had been in decline for a century, was overthrown by Wang Kon, who had established (918) the Koryo dynasty (the name was selected as an abbreviated form of Koguryo and is the source of the name Korea). During the Koryo period, literature was cultivated, and although Buddhism remained the state religion, Confucianism—introduced from China during the Silla years and adapted to Korean customs—controlled the pattern of government. A coup in 1170 led to a period of military rule. In 1231, Mongol forces invaded from China, initiating a war that was waged intermittently for some 30 years. Peace came when Koryo accepted Mongol suzerainty, and a long period of Koryo-Mongol alliance followed. In 1392, Yi Songgye, a general who favored the Ming dynasty (which had replaced the Mongols in China), seized the throne and established the Choson dynasty.
The Choson (or Yi) dynasty, which was to rule until 1910, built a new capital at Hanseong (Seoul) and established Confucianism as the official religion. Early in the dynasty (15th cent.) printing with movable metal type, which had been developed two centuries earlier, became widely used, and the Korean alphabet was developed. The 1592 invasion by the Japanese shogun Hideyoshi was driven back by Choson and Ming forces, but only after six years of great devastation and suffering. Manchu invasions in the first half of the 17th cent. resulted in Korea being made (1637) a tributary state of the Manchu dynasty. Subsequent factional strife gave way, in the 18th cent., to economic prosperity and a cultural and intellectual renaissance. Korea limited its foreign contacts during this period and later resisted, longer than China or Japan, trade with the West, which led to its being called the Hermit Kingdom.
In 1876, Japan forced a commerical treaty with Korea, and to offset the Japanese influence, trade agreements were also concluded (1880s) with the United States and European nations. Japan’s control was tightened after the First Sino-Japanese War (1894–95) and the Russo-Japanese War (1904–5), when Japanese troops moved through Korea to attack Manchuria. These troops were never withdrawn, and in 1905 Japan declared a virtual protectorate over Korea and in 1910 formally annexed the country. The Japanese instituted vast social and economic changes, building modern industries and railroads, but their rule (1910–45) was harsh and exploitative. Sporadic Korean attempts to overthrow the Japanese were unsuccessful, and after 1919 a provisional Korean government, under Syngman Rhee, was established at Shanghai, China.
Knowing history is certainly good, but knowing something about economic reality would be good as well.
Some of the posters make it sound evil, or some dark conspiracy for a company that makes a product to sell would be concerned about creating a product that the people in it's expected market might want to buy it.
People like for something to include them.
No great civilization would have been great had it denied economic realities.
Some of the posters make it sound evil, or some dark conspiracy for a company that makes a product to sell would be concerned about creating a product that the people in it's expected market might want to buy it.
People like for something to include them.
No great civilization would have been great had it denied economic realities.
sigh... you guys are beating around wrong bush.
1. money talks
you guys may like to learn that most Korean civ. players in Korea are playing self-translated/patched Korean language edition of Civ 4. Yes those are pirate copies. There is no official Korean language release of Civ4 in Korea and people came up with Korean translation patches so most Civ4 actually played in Korea are pirate copies + amateur translation/patch effort combined. Firxais is not trying to cash in on Korean market by including Korea, because most single player retail games in Korea fails MISERABLY in terms of sales and many companies that try to bring legitimate copies have had a lot of difficulties keeping their business alive over the years.
Heck, from what I remember, back in 92 I remember seeing all the popular LucasArts adventure games on dial-up networks - people have been doing it for over a decade now and even back then Koreans had their own amateur effort translation patches freely shared on the net where no official translated release was available (Romance of Three Kingdom 2 Korean version anyone? Downloading Japanese DOS on dial-up to play to some of those games?)
The reason why you think Korea is huge market & the reason why Blizzard made loads of $$ in Korea was because Starcraft needed original CD/serial to play on official Battlenet and WoW is subscription based.
Money talks, yes, it's completely true. But it's not directed towards Korean market. As some people have rightly pointed out it's because of the fact that many Europeans/Americans will recognise the name Korea even if they are completely unaware of its history or whatever. Inclusion of Korea must have been marketing decision targeted at those people, not Koreans.
In short, 'money talks' argument proposed here is right in principle but some of youare talking about wrong targets.
2. to BAST
1. money talks
you guys may like to learn that most Korean civ. players in Korea are playing self-translated/patched Korean language edition of Civ 4. Yes those are pirate copies. There is no official Korean language release of Civ4 in Korea and people came up with Korean translation patches so most Civ4 actually played in Korea are pirate copies + amateur translation/patch effort combined. Firxais is not trying to cash in on Korean market by including Korea, because most single player retail games in Korea fails MISERABLY in terms of sales and many companies that try to bring legitimate copies have had a lot of difficulties keeping their business alive over the years.
Heck, from what I remember, back in 92 I remember seeing all the popular LucasArts adventure games on dial-up networks - people have been doing it for over a decade now and even back then Koreans had their own amateur effort translation patches freely shared on the net where no official translated release was available (Romance of Three Kingdom 2 Korean version anyone? Downloading Japanese DOS on dial-up to play to some of those games?)
The reason why you think Korea is huge market & the reason why Blizzard made loads of $$ in Korea was because Starcraft needed original CD/serial to play on official Battlenet and WoW is subscription based.
Money talks, yes, it's completely true. But it's not directed towards Korean market. As some people have rightly pointed out it's because of the fact that many Europeans/Americans will recognise the name Korea even if they are completely unaware of its history or whatever. Inclusion of Korea must have been marketing decision targeted at those people, not Koreans.
Spoiler :
In short, 'money talks' argument proposed here is right in principle but some of youare talking about wrong targets.
2. to BAST
Spoiler :
ParkCungHee
Deity
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2006
- Messages
- 12,921
Bah, if we are going to debate food, the question should beWHAT!!!!!!!
MINIONS!!!! TAKE HIM TO THE PHO DUNGEONS!!!!!!!
"How come we had to wait for an Expansion for the Koreans, and how come they don't have three leaders?"
Spoiler :
Besides which, on grounds of food, England is now out of the game.
ParkCungHee
Deity
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2006
- Messages
- 12,921
Also on the List of Accomplishments: Korea created the most practiced system of Martial Arts ever.
eoc
Prince
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2005
- Messages
- 526
i think Korea should be in the game.
Korea was invaded by China several times(in Han Dynasty, Sui Dynasty and Ming Dynasty), and Korea did contribute to China, though, China just put few army there symbolisticlly and never really ruled Korea. Korea has her own king. i can't find any reason to tell Korea been a vassal of China.nor was a vassal of Japan, because old China wouldn't let it be at all !
in my eyes, Korea is a different nation whatever from their thinking, eating, literal, language, building and so on. Maybe korea was deeply affected by Japan or China, but it is alive until now between 2 powerful countries. It is not so easy for any other nation else. Korea is really so called a civillization.
Korea was invaded by China several times(in Han Dynasty, Sui Dynasty and Ming Dynasty), and Korea did contribute to China, though, China just put few army there symbolisticlly and never really ruled Korea. Korea has her own king. i can't find any reason to tell Korea been a vassal of China.nor was a vassal of Japan, because old China wouldn't let it be at all !
in my eyes, Korea is a different nation whatever from their thinking, eating, literal, language, building and so on. Maybe korea was deeply affected by Japan or China, but it is alive until now between 2 powerful countries. It is not so easy for any other nation else. Korea is really so called a civillization.
ParkCungHee
Deity
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2006
- Messages
- 12,921
Also: If Japan is in, you need Korea. Korea played a key role in shaping Japanese society, especially in the Early times. Korea served as a conduit from China to Japan, so almost all of China's influence on Japan is what Korea transmited, of course with ommisions and changes.
Marla_Singer
United in diversity
Since the initial Civilization game, it seemed that civilizations were mainly representatives of specific cultures. They weren't meant as political entities, even if they were indeed played as united Empires. This I believe is how it should be.
Korea has clearly a specific culture... It has also its own language and its own writing system. Overall, Korea has everything to be considered as culturally specific. As such, I believe it's fair to have them in the game.
As for the fact there are so many European civilizations... I guess that's mainly due to the fact that no power ever succeeded to unite the whole European peninsula, not even the Romans. I guess that if China or India hadn't united into single Empires and that the different parts of them would have compete against each other to colonize the whole world, then they would be represented by more civilizations.
Korea has clearly a specific culture... It has also its own language and its own writing system. Overall, Korea has everything to be considered as culturally specific. As such, I believe it's fair to have them in the game.
As for the fact there are so many European civilizations... I guess that's mainly due to the fact that no power ever succeeded to unite the whole European peninsula, not even the Romans. I guess that if China or India hadn't united into single Empires and that the different parts of them would have compete against each other to colonize the whole world, then they would be represented by more civilizations.
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
No they weren't- Korea and Japan both adopted Chinese culture willingly, they were never colonies. America and Canada were settled by Europeans, Korea and Japan are both populated by the descendants of the same people who live there in the stone age. Korea was sometimes a tributary state of China, but it was never a colony, anymore than the Netherlands were a colony of Germany or Norway was a colony of Denmark.
gettingfat
Emperor
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2003
- Messages
- 1,417
Be careful when you say something so sensational. Although there were stories about Qin sending a taoist leading a group of five hundred kids to Japan (a way to ask for potion of immortality) and it might be true (it's reported in official Chinese historical record), many Japanese simply reject this. Koreans are even prouder.
The truth is, except those unconfirmed records, ancient Chinese rarely intentionally colonize places far away. Their country was big enough (and in terms of Civ, the maintainence due to distance was already very high) and they were not too interested about colonizing an island and a mostly icy region.
The meaning of Colony is different but it's sort of colony like itself in Civ4. I know what are you talking about. Your "Both adopted Chinese culture wilingly" is a colony. Its the same thing. OK, Lets define that it's the cultural colony. Agree?
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
"Cultural Colony" may be a fitting term, but it still seems a little imprecise. "Colony", in whatever sense it's used, implies that said colony is or was part of another nation. Korea and Japan were nations which formed on their own, albeit with strong Chinese influence. Unfortunately, Civ doesn't contain a suitable representation for this.
Vassal of civ4 is it. A master can gather military units from their colonies. So Civ4's vassal is not the colony. It's a sort of relationships. That's why ppl misunderstands the meaning of "Colony". That's why ppl doesn't know why Korea is in Civ4.
