Why is the Greek debt crisis seen as a Euro problem?

[christos200]

Greece has the most idiot politicians. Samaras reminds me papandreou during the last elections ( <<money exist.>>) and papandreou is either realy idiot or has a secret plan to somehow make everyone beleive that his is an ididot.

 

[Lillefix]

So the only explanation is that Papandreou, once again, is either INSANE, or is really following a plan against the country. I am sad to say that i hope he is merely insane.

Considering he didn't even tell his finance minister about the referendum, he's beginning to strike me as irrational and paranoid. But that's just speculation on my part.

 

[Silurian]

He cannot be that INSANE.
He must have called the referendum to try to head off coup.

 

[Dachs]

Greece has the most idiot politicians. Samaras reminds me papandreou during the last elections ( <<money exist.>>) and papandreou is either realy idiot or has a secret plan to somehow make everyone beleive that his is an ididot.

Every time I have to sit through a Republican (or, in a few years, Democrat) presidential candidate debate, I will remember this and not feel quite so bad about myself.

 

[Leoreth]

However this term does not have the same meaning here as elsewhere, i actually believe that the so called nationalist stances of said party were quite reasonable, since it called for a controlled immigration (something which after 1993 has never existed here) and a return to greek culture.

Sounds like fairly standard nationalist buzzwords here.

I am not really sure how much you know of the political scene here currently, but you could learn that after the olympics things went downhill very fast. But even before that it was a rotten state, probably since the 1980s.

I voted once in the past, and voting is in theory compulsory but in practice non-compulsory, but i guess i have to go vote the way things are now. Problem is i do not know who to vote for. Pasok is a nightmare, ND does not seem to be that serious as a leading party, KKE is sunk in its delusions of forming a communist state, theultra-leftist party is dangerous, and Laos is, well, Laos, "popular orthodox alarm" (sounds mostly like a cheap watch) :/

Unfortunately not, so it's very difficult to judge what you're deciding about currently. Could you elaborate a little more on their position on the current aid package, the conditions associated with it, and general structural reforms of the Greek economy?

 

[Kyriakos]

He cannot be that INSANE.
He must have called the referendum to try to head off coup.

Sorry but do you honestly think that?

Let me ask you this: if there was a coup (impossible, but lets say there was) would the EU just sit idle and do nothing at all? Obviously at the very least it would immediately suspend Greece's place as part of the EU, unless you think that the union could have a member under military dictatorship, which you don't.

In other words: there is exactly ZERO % possibility that there would have been a coup. So Papandreou is either an utter moron (can you imagine the chaos he brings by making this move NOW?) or is just part of a plan. Again let me state that - i hope- he is just a moron, and will be gotten rid of in the elections.

 

[Leoreth]

Back after reading an article on the massive replacing of all leaders of the armed forces.

It does seem like a COLOSSAL stupidity (or worse) to do that in any other case apart from said leaders plotting a coup. But if it is colossally idiotic to replace them, it is even more colossally (hypercolossally) idiotic to think that they were planning any such thing. Like i said before the armed forces have been effectively stripped of any political power since the democratic restoration. Also it would not take a genius to realize that if they indeed planned a coup that would spark huge outrage both inside and outside the country, and it would not be sustainable.

So the only explanation is that Papandreou, once again, is either INSANE, or is really following a plan against the country. I am sad to say that i hope he is merely insane.

I obviously don't know the involved commanders in chief or the general situation, but it may only be that he's certain he needs people he can trust to uphold control in the upcoming weeks, regardless of any imminent military coup. An apathetic military is almost as worse as an openly antagonistic one.

 

[Kyriakos]

Sounds like fairly standard nationalist buzzwords here.


Unfortunately not, so it's very difficult to judge what you're deciding about currently. Could you elaborate a little more on their position on the current aid package, the conditions associated with it, and general structural reforms of the Greek economy?

Actually the Laos party was in favor of the aid package (the first one, last year, it even voted for it) but then accessed that the government was not doing anything right, and is no longer in support of it, stressing that elections should happen as soon as possible.

It has shown reasonable (in my view) ideas about the monetary aid and the cost of it, namely that some things must be privatized, even handed over to foreigners, but not the strategic industries (eg power and water).

 

[innonimatu]

Let me ask you this: if there was a coup (impossible, but lets say there was) would the EU just sit idle and do nothing at all? Obviously at the very least it would immediately suspend Greece's place as part of the EU, unless you think that the union could have a member under military dictatorship, which you don't.

You're failing to consider the obvious: Greece is about to leave the EU.

 

[Leoreth]

And ND (since it will most likely be them providing the PM in case of new elections)?

 

[Lillefix]

You're failing to consider the obvious: Greece is about to leave the EU.

The Eurozone perhaps. Not the EU. Leaving the EU doesn't make sense.

 

[Kyriakos]

I obviously don't know the involved commanders in chief or the general situation, but it may only be that he's certain he needs people he can trust to uphold control in the upcoming weeks, regardless of any imminent military coup. An apathetic military is almost as worse as an openly antagonistic one.

Sorry but i hope i misunderstood you. Do you mean to say that he will use the army against his own citizens? And would you be fine with that?

However even if he did want to pull a Ceusescu, he would fail, (Ceusescu had the police with him, not the army anyway), since it is very unlikely that the regular people in the armed forces (remember that Greece has virtually no mercenary regiments) would agree to police their fellow citizens. But even the mention of such things surely must show you that this government not only failed everywhere, but is in effect dangerous.

 

[Kyriakos]

The Eurozone perhaps. Not the EU. Leaving the EU doesn't make sense.

Obvious truth. Why leave the EU? Besides, you cannot leave the EU unless you decide to, and Papandreou is in no position to decide anything of the kind.

 

[Kyriakos]

And ND (since it will most likely be them providing the PM in case of new elections)?

Not really that promising from what i read (it has been half a year since i last used a television, could not stand it). In a nutshell (maybe Christos can provide more info) they repeat all of the time that they would also agree to an aid package, but one with better conditions. That does not sound like much. But really they could hardly do more damage than the current lot.

EDIT: One thing that is a redeeming feature for the ND though is that Samaras has time and again stated that he will declare an Autonomous Economic zone, which effectively means that the country will have oil and gas deals coming in. That alone is something.

 

[Silurian]

Sorry but do you honestly think that?
.

Yes I have to assume that the leaders of EU countries are rational.
(I may not agree with what they do but that is different)

If he is having a mental breakdown then I hope he is quickly relieved.

 

[Dachs]

Yes I have to assume that the leaders of EU countries are rational.
(I may not agree with what they do but that is different)

But you don't have to assume that their military leaders are?

 

[Silurian]

But you don't have to assume that their military leaders are?

It is not rational to change all the military leaders at the same time unless he thinks they are up to something.

You could fall out with one service leader, but not all at once.


The military leaders could rationally think that a coup and suspension of Greece from the EU would be best for Greece because of the lack of leadership of the Greek politicians. I do not think they would be correct but it would be rational.

If there is some other reason, why do it now.

 

[innonimatu]

Funny how greeks are all of a sudden being told that they have oil and gas. I see the same thing here. And I don't believe it.

I think that it's too soon for a coup to happen, or for a government to be planning to sue the military for anything. But I'm not in Greece, I don't know how the mood is there. I do expect a few more months of political theater before anything important happens. Spring 2012 should be about right.

 

[Kyriakos]

Funny how greeks are all of a sudden being told that they have oil and gas. I see the same thing here. And I don't believe it.

I think that it's too soon for a coup to happen, or for a government to be planning to sue the military for anything. But I'm not in Greece, I don't know how the mood is there. I do expect a few more months of political theater before anything important happens. Spring 2012 should be about right.

Not sure where you are from, but the oil & gas is currently being extracted in the Cypriot zone, so it is very logical to assume it exists next to it as well. I am not a geologist, but geologists have claimed the same. Besides, lets say there is nothing, why fail to declare an independent economic zone and at least look for it?

 

[Marla_Singer]

Papandreou has decided to break up from the E.U.

To announce a referendum was just a way to refuse European agreements without having to assume it directly.