Why it is unlawful for the U.S. to persecute Benladdin.

Originally posted by Fallen Angel Lord
I find it is actually against the law to take any action against Benladdin.


Entirely ignorant of the law and rule regarding war, eh?
There are no constitutional or other US law conditions, or judicial restraints to the government declaring war, it is a congressional function, not reviewable by the courts, with no burden proof involved. In this case a declaration would be superfluous anyway, since the terrorists have begun to wage war, without declaration (war begins with the first hostilities, if before declaration). Their actions is all of : waging war; piracy (private persons waging war against a government other than their own); war crime (atrocity); other international, national, and local crimes. Recall the Dec 8 1941 resolution by Congress, it was not a declaration of war, but a statement that war had begun a the time of the Pearl Harbor attack, rather than some hours later when the Japanese declaration was delivered. In response we can wage war (no proof or any judicial hearing involved, nor even review possible by courts) and proceed to investigate and prosecute any of the various crimes, without any obligation to pick among the two course; we may do both. We capture a member of one of the targeted organizations, and cannot proof anything against him individually, we may hold his as a POW, no trial, while the conflict goes on. No warrants are needs for military or intelligence actions against the enemies. Any one we can prove a specific crime against, try him and jail him as criminal, pirate, or war criminal. Any nations that allow them in their territory, give them the notice and time limit pertain to neutrals who have belligerents in their territory. If they do not expel or intern them, they sacrifice neutrality and a now belligerents. The terrorists have the worst of both legal worlds, belligerency & criminal. They do not have a legal pot to piss in.
 
Originally posted by floppa21


So what I said still stands. Ya know, where I already quoted myself? Who started this thread anyways? Cornmaster? I hope not. You're sayin what I'm sayin. It doesn't matter if Ladin did WTC or not. He' still goin down. Along with plenty of other terrorists. So what right does US have to "take action" against Ladin? Oh god I'm getting sleepy... bro... ken....... rec..... ord.....
No...I didn't start the thread....and yes, I'm agreeing with you. There is no hard evidince to convict Bin Laden on THIS charge....but he's done so many other things he should have been brought down a LONG TIME ago.
 
Originally posted by CornMaster

No...I didn't start the thread....and yes, I'm agreeing with you. There is no hard evidince to convict Bin Laden on THIS charge....but he's done so many other things he should have been brought down a LONG TIME ago.

Woohoo I agree with you too!
 
CornMaster: I saw you didn't start the thread after I posted, couldn't see without hittin back 6 times... :)

Lefty: You go you old fart! :) :goodjob:

Juize: The HELL are you talking about? Maybe I don't understand your English, that's not a knock on you.

"Just asking: What makes mr. Usama to a terrorist,
if there isn't any proof? Must be very plain clear?"

You mean "What makes Ladin a terrorist if there is no proof?" I HOPE you don't mean that. But I am thinkin that's what you meant... If so, read prior posts. Had you never heard of Ladin prior to September 11th?
 
Again (I've said this before, in other threads), even in "normal" criminal investigations (homicide, etc.) in the US, not all evidence is made public before the trial. If it were, how could we find an impartial jury to hear the case? If the people hear all the prosecutorial evidence BEFORE the trial, then the jury pool would be biased toward the prosecution, since they have heard all the evidence without hearing the defense arguments.

IF there is a trial of bin Laden, THEN all the arguments and evidence will be put on public record (transcripts of the trial) at that point. But if bin Laden is to have a fair trial, then the evidence CAN'T be released to the public before his defense attorneys have a chance to argue, can it?

I think it's a non-issue though. Like someone said, he declared war on the US a long time ago, it is only now that we are taking him seriously. I think he will end up dead, either in action or by his own hand if he is trapped with no way out but surrender.... But I would LIKE to see a trial--it would be greater punishment for him, to have to actually face his accusers at trial, and suffer direct legal consequences (execution) if he is found guilty--which he would be of at least a few counts, since he admitted to some of the other terrorist attacks....
 
Nobody wants to "prosecute" Bin Laden, at least not in America.

"Persecute" is accurate.

If you think these are harsh words you are right. This was not a criminal act, it was an act of war.

The Geneva Convention is a guideline for the conduct of war ( ie. the treatment of prisoners) and dosn't mean the US wont blow his ass away.

So wait and let things play out, because theres alot that ordinary joes like us dont know yet. Or may never know.
 
"If you think these are harsh words you are right. This was not a criminal act, it was an act of war."

I agree--however, from a technical legal standpoint, it could also be prosecuted as a criminal act. If he were to be handed over to us by the Taliban government (likely won't happen, but IF), then he would be put on trial.

I posted my above post in response to those who demand proof of guilt before we go after him--like I said, even in a simple prosecution of homicide, proof isn't made public until trial--but that doesn't stop the police from arresting suspects, and even using deadly force if necessary if they resist arrest. This happens every day....
 
Originally posted by allan
I posted my above post in response to those who demand proof of guilt before we go after him--like I said, even in a simple prosecution of homicide, proof isn't made public until trial--but that doesn't stop the police from arresting suspects, and even using deadly force if necessary if they resist arrest. This happens every day....

This is a INTERNATIONAL thing. If Bin Laden would be carried to USA to justice
(which will never happen, but IF), American fanatics
would immediatly murder him.
 
You're wrong Juize. He would be protected by the wooden cart/cage being pulled by a PONY, all we could do is throw tomatoes and poke him with sticks. :rolleyes:
 
Yeah, right... America is known for murdering people that were brought to trial... Bin Laden better stay in Afghanistan, where there are no fanatics and no one murders anyone
 
Originally posted by Juize


This is a INTERNATIONAL thing. If Bin Laden would be carried to USA to justice
(which will never happen, but IF), American fanatics
would immediatly murder him.
You know, boy, I'm getting REALLY annoyed at your US slander.
The World Trade Center, and the Pentagon are on US soil, it's our juridiction, not that you would understand the concept.

Back up that statement with proof, some kind of example, or shut that hole under your nose.
I don't need a 14 year old telling me about my nation, since from listening to you, all you yell out is ridiculous statements concerning the USA.

For Corn and the rest of you who have been talking out your backsides:

The US does indeed have proof of Bin Laden's guilt, and presented a 20 page document to the Pakistani government, which is why they agreed to assist the US in it's war on terrorism.

All of you would be advised to think before you say those dumb-assed things you have been saying for 3 weeks. :rolleyes:
 
Isn't there some G.I.Joe or maybe G.I. Juha site Juize can go to? (Joe sounds too American and thus, Joe is probably an evil fascist pig) I am wondering why he is coming to this site? Oh and Juize?


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by floppa21
(..)It doesn't matter if Ladin did WTC or not. He' still goin down. Along with plenty of other terrorists. So what right does US have to "take action" against Ladin? Oh god I'm getting sleepy... bro... ken....... rec..... ord.....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


These are pretty too-used threads.
Just asking: What makes mr. Usama to a terrorist,
if there isn't any proof? Must be very plain clear?


You never commented sweety... ;)
 
Juize, did you EVER commented on these subjects with a proof to what you say? We have proofs. Just open CNN for an hour and listen to what they have to say. NATO agree there's proof. Russia agree there's proof. Even Pakistan agrees on it. So why can't you?
 
Originally posted by Alcibiaties of Athenae
(..)All of you would be advised to think before you say those dumb-assed things you have been saying for 3 weeks. :rolleyes:
Like this one?
Originally posted by Alcibiaties of Athenae
(..)Take your head out of your ass, boy. The muslim states are filled with dirty murderers, who support murderers, who then laugh and sing about it. (..)
As I recall, I made that comment the very night after I witnessed the attack, in person, not on a TV screen, and after you had screamed that the US had no proof of Bin Laden's culpability for over two pages in another thread.
The fact was then, as now, Palestians were dancing in the streets about it.
What a vile little troll you are to attempt to throw that in my face.
Try that again, take a comment of mine out of context, and you will be gone.
Am I making myself clear?
You have been warned.
AoA


<strike>It's hard to think that americans could stay cool if their comments
are like this.</strike>
No way are you getting away with that either.


Orig. posted by G-Man
Juize, did you EVER commented on these subjects with a proof to what you say? We have proofs. Just open CNN for an hour and listen to what they have to say. NATO agree there's proof. Russia agree there's proof. Even Pakistan agrees on it. So why can't you?

I don't trust freaking CNN. I don't trust anybody.
Why should I trust when USA says it has proves?
Or (I'm NOT referring now), why should Taleban trust to USA?

This is a matter of principle.
one nation cannot just destroy another nation
(like nukes, what you want) without any good reason.
Too much asked?
Maybe.

Maybe I'm just a pacifistical piece-of-*******.
Maybe some nation should nuke USA without any good reason.
 
Juize? You still ignoring me you moron? Let's see, 14, paranoid, rude and abrasive, hates America, and brainless. JUIZE, I think you are a future terrorist. Yah I agree with ya, you're a "piece-of-*******." A big piece.
 
Well, MSN.com has an article stating that Pakistan said the US's evidence is good and sufficient. Of course, some people "don't trust" CNN or any news source.
 
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