Why make some civs Neutral when their clearly intended religion drives them to evil?

[CladInShadows]

Hannah is definately up to something. In my last 6 games, all with every civ enabled on a Huge map it has been her that has founded the Ashen Veil. The only way that could happen is if she is intent on rushing it from the very start.

As far as the Amurites go, I play them every time and always focus single mindedly on founding the Council of Esus. It's so easy to spread to your neighbors to increase relations and even those that you can't get it to won't hate you for having a different religion. Plus Gibbon is a great first advanced spellcaster and the coucil is a great way to get people ganging up on anyone stupid enough to pick a fight with you.

 

[Fafnir13]

I noticed a number of comments about evil civs suffering as hell terrain spreads. I never have trouble with this. So long as I'm the one researching pact, I always make sure I've got spirit mana lined up and a number of adepts ready who can keep it at bay until I'm ready to wipe Hyborem off the map. He usually goes down without much of a fight and the hell terrain, while troublesome when it can hide on coastal tiles, is fairly easy to clean up afterwards.
Now the evil AI's have trouble, but that's par for the course no matter what special feature you're talking about.

 

[cyther]

How does spirit mana help? I am currently the Calabim and most of the World is encased in the nasty stuff.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

The Spirit I spell (Courage) gives the Courage promotion, which allows your unit to overcome Fear. (This promotion is now also granted to units in a city with the Hope building, which is created by the Spirit II spell.) Without it, you will be unable to attack many of the stronger demons.

 

[Fafnir13]

Awe crap, my bad. I actually meant to say life mana for sanctify. Yeah, I get them mixed up sometimes, thankfully not in game.
Didn't know hope gave courage. Thanks for the info.

 

[DuckAndCower]

Awe crap, my bad. I actually meant to say life mana for sanctify. Yeah, I get them mixed up sometimes, thankfully not in game.
Didn't know hope gave courage. Thanks for the info.

My problem with this is that Evil civs are encouraged to get Life mana, which doesn't make sense thematically.

 

[Vladesch]

what if the most ideal religion for the Calabim was Order.

Easily replaceable vampire paladins are hard to beat.
Unyielding order works well for people farms too.

 

[lampuiho]

amurites are clearly ashen veil.

Bannor are clearly Order( at least in theme)

The real thrust of this thread is my question of why Evil is given the cool toys and thus, features most prominently in strategy talks here on the boards.

And then Sabathiel says "NEVER! I'm EVIL!"

http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/lampuiho/?action=view&current=Civ4ScreenShot0001.jpg

 

[fuzzy_bunnies]

How does fol work well with Amurites? Fol sucks with any non-elves due to the fact that forests titles sucks and ancient forests titles are still worse than farms...

I was playing Elohim (ok sue me, I thought they were elves... I mean... they LOOK like elves...) and did FoL... I didn't find it too bad though since ancient forests seem to essentially give free irrigation or free mining (if on a hill) and I could just chop down and plant a couple towns wherever I wanted... plus getting guardian suddenly had all my cities at like 26/16 for unhappiness.

My start had tons of forest everywhere and I started next to the hippus. When they inevitably declared war, the ancient forest with few roads slowed down their raiders and the cities I captured usually had some forest nearby which was like instant free farms/mines.

I understand FoL isn't ideal but is there something more that makes it horrible or am I missing out on something amazing from another civ?

 

[Ekolite]

You're missing out on something amazing. You mention the ancient forest being like free irrigation and mines, well playing as the Ljosalfar (the real elves) you get to build imporvements on forest. Meaning you can effectively have two mines or two farms per tile. Also works with the Svartalfar.

 

[MiKa523]

I don't know fuzzy.
I don't understand either why ppl think that fol is so bad for non-elves.
Like you said, ancient forests don't need Agriculture, they slow down intruders, there is a chance of a treant spawning when in war and guardian of nature gives a nice hero, makes those forests around your city more valuable and your empire less dependent on ressources.
Maybe it's just that this religion is so fitting and good for elves with all its additional benefits that it's considered weak in relation for non-elves, although it actually isn't and has its viable strategies.

 

[fuzzy_bunnies]

You're missing out on something amazing. You mention the ancient forest being like free irrigation and mines, well playing as the Ljosalfar (the real elves) you get to build imporvements on forest. Meaning you can effectively have two mines or two farms per tile. Also works with the Svartalfar.

Well, no, I get that... if I was playing elves I'd have a ton more synergy... but my question is, whats actually BAD about FoL as a non-elf? Do you really gain that much more by being, say, Empyrean vs a non-elf FoL?

 

[Demus]

the hero, basically. It's not that FoL is bad, it's just that, in most cases, there are better picks.

 

[Caradoc]

FOL is a great 'starter' religion. Lets you cultivate some Ancient Forests and build a few Priests of Leaves and Satyrs before you move on to something else.

 

[slowcar]

but has anybody ever tried to use Empyreans as part of a strategy ??

I love to play empyrian with my favorite leader, tasunke.
commando rathas with 6 movement are awesome and the AI is stopped whereever a stack shows, especially as a single blinded unit means the stack stays with it once it is assembled.

normally i have two big attack stacks. one with my old axes, upgraded to some nice t4 unit. with all promotions they don't need much support to take over anything short of 100%+def citis on hills with promoted crossbows.
the other lead by chalid, together with 3-4 attack rathas and a couple of mobility2+blitz rathas. pillar of flame and 6 attack units decimate enemy stacks very nicely.

i normally skip researching the divine and magic techs and only dip into to get empyrian.
chalid is my favorite hero because i like small, ultra-powerful stacks and he is a very good supporter for them.