Why Peoples Do What They Do? Naming, Understanding, and Navigating Behavioral Patterns

[Birdjaguar]

@H4run
Most small business owners know very little about business. They usually enter the commercial world with a slice of knowledge related to one or maybe two of these:

• Product knowledge from a previous job
• Service knowledge from a previous job
• A narrow skill set learned previously
• They heard or read about a "hot" opportunity
• A family member or relative encouraged them to do this business for some not clear reason
• They lost their job and think they can compete with their previous employer

Their expectations are usually not aligned with reality
They are missing multiple key elements of starting a successful business: marketing, accounting, planning, operations, financing
They do not understand their customers
They often think revenue equals profit
They slavishly copy some business model they don't understand such as "under the competition on price to grow market share."

As a small business owner, you need to choose your suppliers carefully, perhaps educate them in your expectations and what that means for them. Your goals and their goals need to be somewhat aligned. If you anticipate needing 50 of product X a month for your sales and your supplier can only create 25 of them in a month, you will have a problem. You need to understand how your suppliers do business and create products and they need to know how your business works and the delivery schedules you will need. There can be lots of guess work in all this so the better you and your suppliers know one another the smoother things will go. The more you know about your business and your customers, the better you will be at selecting suppliers.

 

[Narz]

I also think so, the funny thing is I always try to tell my friend/ex-partner about it by giving examples of others and I was hoping he can catch it and change, and he still doesn't get it and did the same mistake, I guess he is a kind of peoples who always mark-up or take more for himself from here and there and get satisfaction in doing so, so yes there's an element of malice.

But the thing is, we are a good friends in the sense that when I was in trouble he was willing to help and I'll be there to help him tackle a problem that's not completely my job desc as well, but when it come to money there's an element of greed, malice and shortsightedness.

People are mixed, bad morality in some situations, altruistic in others.

"Take your meds" is a common phrase now that often has nothing to do with the person actually being sick.

But it shows something about the collective idea that annoying/anti-social behavior (i.e. : behavior that challenges your patience or beliefs) is best placated with medication. Not saying anything about your behavior/beliefs but the attitude of suppressing others one doesn't like in general.

It's kind of like the collective attitude towards homelessness. Everyone (except psychopaths) would prefer to solve the problem but that's too difficult & would require a massive rearrangement of society so 2nd best is if they're all quieter & out of the way.

 

[Hygro]

@H4run
Most small business owners know very little about business. They usually enter the commercial world with a slice of knowledge related to one or maybe two of these:

• Product knowledge from a previous job
• Service knowledge from a previous job
• A narrow skill set learned previously
• They heard or read about a "hot" opportunity
• A family member or relative encouraged them to do this business for some not clear reason
• They lost their job and think they can compete with their previous employer

Their expectations are usually not aligned with reality
They are missing multiple key elements of starting a successful business: marketing, accounting, planning, operations, financing
They do not understand their customers
They often think revenue equals profit
They slavishly copy some business model they don't understand such as "under the competition on price to grow market share."

As a small business owner, you need to choose your suppliers carefully, perhaps educate them in your expectations and what that means for them. Your goals and their goals need to be somewhat aligned. If you anticipate needing 50 of product X a month for your sales and your supplier can only create 25 of them in a month, you will have a problem. You need to understand how your suppliers do business and create products and they need to know how your business works and the delivery schedules you will need. There can be lots of guess work in all this so the better you and your suppliers know one another the smoother things will go. The more you know about your business and your customers, the better you will be at selecting suppliers.

But like as a person… I can’t help but imagine someone who knows sort of everything like you find on cfc and therefore would never make those errors is exactly not the person to take a leap and say “I’m going to open a store”. Loads of exceptions but like, it’s baffling to me a basic “my business requires a good reputation” and “make long term good decisions” type of mindset isn’t a given.

 

[H4run]

@H4run
Most small business owners know very little about business. They usually enter the commercial world with a slice of knowledge related to one or maybe two of these:

• Product knowledge from a previous job
• Service knowledge from a previous job
• A narrow skill set learned previously
• They heard or read about a "hot" opportunity
• A family member or relative encouraged them to do this business for some not clear reason
• They lost their job and think they can compete with their previous employer

Their expectations are usually not aligned with reality
They are missing multiple key elements of starting a successful business: marketing, accounting, planning, operations, financing
They do not understand their customers
They often think revenue equals profit
They slavishly copy some business model they don't understand such as "under the competition on price to grow market share."

As a small business owner, you need to choose your suppliers carefully, perhaps educate them in your expectations and what that means for them. Your goals and their goals need to be somewhat aligned. If you anticipate needing 50 of product X a month for your sales and your supplier can only create 25 of them in a month, you will have a problem. You need to understand how your suppliers do business and create products and they need to know how your business works and the delivery schedules you will need. There can be lots of guess work in all this so the better you and your suppliers know one another the smoother things will go. The more you know about your business and your customers, the better you will be at selecting suppliers.

Here, it's much easier to start a business because everyone can get into the biggest online retail in Indonesia, namely Tokopedia, Shopee and Lazada, it's like Amazon but the difference is it's also open to general public. Gladly I already started this since the time I was working, so when I lose my job I just put my focus in it, it doesn't deliver much but now at least it's at the sufficient enough to cover basic living cost, and it's getting better.

My problem is mostly with finding peoples who have a decent mind that understand if they profit their partner and customer the business will keep running, perhaps I'm still new in the wood business so he can tricked and convinced me that X and Y woods are the same while it's not, but in the end still, what does he gained? nothing, what do I gained? nothing, in the end he fooling himself as well, the same behavior and mindset I found repetitively all across this years with many difference forms, but the very essence is still the same, he just out-fooling himself by trying to out-smarting others, and I find it fascinatingly frustrating.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I spent 8 years teaching an SBDC (Small business Development Center) course on writing Business plans and starting a small business. Eight times a year I met with different small groups (4-12) of folks who were starting a new business. 80% of those folks were mostly clueless beyond "This is what I want to do".

But like as a person… I can’t help but imagine someone who knows sort of everything like you find on cfc and therefore would never make those errors is exactly not the person to take a leap and say “I’m going to open a store”. Loads of exceptions but like, it’s baffling to me a basic “my business requires a good reputation” and “make long term good decisions” type of mindset isn’t a given.

 

[Birdjaguar]

he just out-fooling himself by trying to out-smarting others, and I find it fascinatingly frustrating.

No surprises there. Spending the time (and money?) to get to know suppliers is a long term strategy that can pay big dividends.

 

[H4run]

Certain individuals I've observed possess traits that seem to hide their inner warmth and feelings, often giving off a perceived coldness. These traits can often be attributed to one's inherent temperament, a feature ingrained from birth. Even though I studied psychology during undergrad, I'm not a professional nor ever maintain the discourse psychologist. Much of what I state comes from my personal observations and experiences, particularly with a woman I know and her second child.

This woman's second child is extraordinarily calm. When he was a baby, their neighbors were astounded to discover they had an infant, simply because they never heard any crying or screaming. If he needed something, he would just make a soft fussing sound. Only after a while of being ignored would he resort to crying. The child's mother, the woman I mentioned, had been very similar as a child. She was not a fussy baby, and was content doing her own things without disturbing anyone. Both mother and child are noted for their kind dispositions and impressive tolerance. Whether these traits are genetically related is a topic of ongoing discussion.

Because of their non-confrontational and tolerant nature, people often exploit them. It's a peculiar trait they have, that they will continue to tolerate until they reach a breaking point. Once that threshold is crossed, the situation can become very challenging. She has a helper at their home who brought along a 3-year-old. This child tends to take advantage of the woman's second child, often snatching away toys from him. His older brother, an 8-year-old, would advise him not to let others take his toys away. But the 5-year-old would simply reply, "It's alright, he is just a child". This magnanimous nature, while commendable, also brings up concerns about his ability to establish boundaries.

The elder brother also tends to take advantage of the younger one, like one time he was kicking and messing up the game that he play, and it happened to cross his breaking point, which he just storm and start to beat his brother till his brother run and hide in his parent's room, the 5 years old then take a sweeper and start to hitting the door with it until he got separated. The 5-year-old, despite his tolerance, is also fiercely competitive. During a playful foam 'war-game,' he never backs down and moves forward demonstrating his resilience, and he would cry when he lose despite he is very rarely cry.

The mother bears a striking resemblance to her second child in terms of tolerance and competitiveness. People often overstep boundaries with her, only to face severe consequences. In high school, she once forcefully kicked a table onto two boys who persistently shoved their table against her chair. She is similar at home as well, pampering her family until a point where she feels her boundaries are crossed. Being comfortable around her, they often fail to recognize when they have overstepped these boundaries.

They are always look very calm and cold, they are good listeners and followers, everybody love them, they will be just there and listen to whatever peoples say and reserve most of their opinion, and the second child also play games that his big bro set for him unless when he doesn't want to, which rarely happened but when it happened he either refuse to give any explanation why or just say it bluntly "It's really boring", perhaps that's happened when he thought that it is too much and he had enough.

I remembered I had a friend like this also during high-school, and he was a very able martial artist practioner, but you know, everybody just pretty much chill with him and tend to exploit him, and there were few peoples who actually met his breaking point one if it is me. So I bought a snack for us, and I told him not to let anyone to took it, and a friend of us took it, I was so angry that I throw something (choki-choki, very hard to explain what that is) to his face, and yes, that's nasty, and for the first time in our close friendship he just stood up and want to beat me up, honestly I was scared, because I did spar him several time and he was a monster, but I try to brave-up myself and confront him prepare to get beaten, but gladly a friend separated us. Until that moment, till now, our friendship never really recovered, he always put distant on me, it seems it's very hard to reach his breaking point but when it did the impression also very hard to scrub clean, even after 20 years passed he seems to keeping his distant. Too bad though we were quite close back then.

 

[Remorseless1]

Sucks that human beings are so, so different. We should all act the same.

Individuality blows, amirite?

 

[H4run]

Sucks that human beings are so, so different. We should all act the same.

Individuality blows, amirite?

what's this?

 

[Moriarte]

So, I decided to help him. I bought lots of his durum to be eaten with my family, and spread the word to my neighbors by sharing it with them. Unfortunately, the durum he provided had meat that smelled off, indicating that it was days-old meat. Of course, after that, no one wanted to go there. In order to cover his loss he is doing a disservice to his own business by allowing me to distribute his near or already rotten products so everybody know how bad his products are.

Do you mind my asking why you felt he needs help? "No good deed goes unpunished" is a kind of ironic line but it strikes close to the heart of the issue with charity. Helping others while they are desperate and ask for help is noble. Helping others while they don't ask for help make surprisingly many people view you as fool to take advantage of. In my experience people rarely behave noble in return unless we force them to.

 

[H4run]

Do you mind my asking why you felt he needs help? "No good deed goes unpunished" is a kind of ironic line but it strikes close to the heart of the issue with charity. Helping others while they are desperate and ask for help is noble. Helping others while they don't ask for help make surprisingly many people view you as fool to take advantage of. In my experience people rarely behave noble in return unless we force them to.

Even though it's a little bit out of topic, but it's a good question so I answer it. Well, my wife also told me I'm sometimes too nice as a person, even though contradictively I got a reputation for not being so nice as well it's mostly depend on how others triggered me with. I just like to help someone that's worthy to help, I don't like to brag about myself but in his case he is an old man who newly open a store with all of his saving, and a refugee as well and survive alone by himself even though he is partnering with local. The charity money that I gave him even though it's my money but it's already separated for this kind of thing, so if it's not go toward him it will be went to others, that money is already not belong to me essentially.

Why he is a perfect target for me? At that time I bought around 15 of his durum, 10 of it I spread it to peoples while 5 of it for us, so I'm not only helping him who needed help but also helping others. If that make me look like a fool, then I can't do crap about it, and it do happened. Like for instance, my cousin's wife take a picture of how they were gathering peoples to pray for my belated mother and asked money from me, it's not a big money and I will naturally give it to her (without any pre-reasoning/deeds) because that amount is something that only sufficient to buy foods, and after that I heard from my uncle she's was laughing on how I can easily get fooled while actually it's just a picture that she took from a local gathering, and of course after that I never give her again for quite a long time until her husband really beg for my help. I mean, she may think I am a fool, but I think they are the foolish one, and in the end when you do something goods for others you do it for yourself not be called smart by others. But as you said, lots of peoples are basically a piece of crap, but we shouldn't let that fact take away a little good thing that we have in ourselves, right?

Not the best answer and you may not agree, but that's my answer, and I use this example to understand others behavior and motive.

 

[Moriarte]

But as you said, lots of peoples are basically a piece of crap, but we shouldn't let that fact take away a little good thing that we have in ourselves, right?

Well, yeah, something like that. Maybe I'd rephrase piece of crap to "extremely likely to bail on you at the first sign of trouble". (just for precision!) I try to extend a personal formula of charity to "make sure they at least don't screw me in the process of being generous". But of course, it's not always in the realm of control or practical. Sometimes you travel home, unwrap durum, and.. damn.

As for applying principle to business - I see merit in the school of thought, which says that it helps to establish clear and tempting motivations in advance. A simple example: I could give an employee a salary. Or I could give a salary and a project completion bonus. The latter motivates person to make extra effort towards common goal. I recall reading one of W. Buffett's books recently, where he mentions how parcel delivery services in one of the companies in the USA experienced a full fledged renaissance after it was decided that workers are now compensated by the kilo (or pound) of parcels. They used to be compensated for the hours of work, see, and warehouses were overflowed with undelivered cargo.

As soon as that little change got implemented, not only warehouses were swiftly cleared up, workers started voicing concerns that too little cargo is coming through and they would like more cargo, because that would lead to a pay rise. Management obliged.

 

[H4run]

Well, yeah, something like that. Maybe I'd rephrase piece of crap to "extremely likely to bail on you at the first sign of trouble".

Perhaps that's a lot peoples like that as well for another case, I agree, but in my particular case is more like there are enjoyments in malice, even though most of the samples that I put those peoples were successfully "outsmarting" me and others, they ending up bringing their own doomed and screwing themselves after their little acrobat: their businesses are closed, the suppose to be deal and easy transaction are cancelled, even the one who wanted to sell the wood-charcoal just few days ago contact us, but I mean, the seal is broken and there are no mending back, we might still be friend and all depend on the circumstances but in no way I'll ever conducting partnership or business with them ever again.

Well, yeah, something like that. Maybe I'd rephrase piece of crap to "extremely likely to bail on you at the first sign of trouble". (just for precision!) I try to extend a personal formula of charity to "make sure they at least don't screw me in the process of being generous". But of course, it's not always in the realm of control or practical. Sometimes you travel home, unwrap durum, and.. damn.

As for applying principle to business - I see merit in the school of thought, which says that it helps to establish clear and tempting motivations in advance. A simple example: I could give an employee a salary. Or I could give a salary and a project completion bonus. The latter motivates person to make extra effort towards common goal. I recall reading one of W. Buffett's books recently, where he mentions how parcel delivery services in one of the companies in the USA experienced a full fledged renaissance after it was decided that workers are now compensated by the kilo (or pound) of parcels. They used to be compensated for the hours of work, see, and warehouses were overflowed with undelivered cargo.

As soon as that little change got implemented, not only warehouses were swiftly cleared up, workers started voicing concerns that too little cargo is coming through and they would like more cargo, because that would lead to a pay rise. Management obliged.

Noted to that. My previous company also pretty much able to make their employees vehemently loyal and proud to the brand by simply giving a huge chunk of bonus and profit from good sales, for any division but especially marketing. My Boss was essentially like Mao there being praise, fear and love at the same time, his words during huge meeting like "I just eating your left-over" also pretty much touch the employees, but you are right as soon as the pandemic hit and the company shook, it's very common to see peoples walk-out or even turn over to company looking for a big settlement, (which I never did, I know I'm hugely in debt to him despite for whatever lack/fault he had or promises he hasn't fulfilled). But yea, that's a discussion for another thread, however I really appreciate your input mang.

 

[Joij21]

We keep experiencing the same set of disappointing behaviors, but they seem to come out of nowhere, without reason or warning. It's like we are navigating our life in the pitch-black night with no lights, and we keep bumping into obstacles along the way.

It's called life, it sucks, and the people within it suck as well.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

What would you guys name this pattern of behavior? Is it greed? Or is it sheer stupidity?

it depends what the person is trying to get. i don't think "greed" alone quite fits; if greed alone predicted their behavior, they'd still pick options that result in them getting more money. in the situations you describe where the person in question is deliberately screwing someone, there has to be some kind of malicious motive though.

ultimately, the behavior you describe is only possible with both; an honest person might fail, but they won't deliberately screw someone. a dishonest but otherwise rational/capable person would nevertheless align their behavior to achieve as much benefit as they can, which if they're the business owner and/or have financial interest in long-term success, isn't what you describe.

 

[H4run]

it depends what the person is trying to get. i don't think "greed" alone quite fits; if greed alone predicted their behavior, they'd still pick options that result in them getting more money. in the situations you describe where the person in question is deliberately screwing someone, there has to be some kind of malicious motive though.

ultimately, the behavior you describe is only possible with both; an honest person might fail, but they won't deliberately screw someone. a dishonest but otherwise rational/capable person would nevertheless align their behavior to achieve as much benefit as they can, which if they're the business owner and/or have financial interest in long-term success, isn't what you describe.

Exactly right? I've known some "not a good" person that's really good and understand how to look after each other profit, he understand that in the end we are in need of each other.

I own a small business and I make sure my reseller able to provide a cheaper price than me to the end-user (and I always maintain my price cap to the direct end-user), because I understand that in order for me to grow I need to pass the ball to them I can't make every game my ball because that will definitely shrink my game, however stupid greedy peoples don't understand that and will devour everything in front of their mouth until no one want to deal with them, but the smart one, even though they are greedy, understand that they need to maintain partnership and TRUST in order to maximized profit.

 

[H4run]

A few weeks ago, my wife insisted on showing me an interview featuring a woman named Anneke Lucas. I happily obliged because I usually enjoy these kinds of interviews; they're similar to the ones on Soft White Underbelly. In the interview, Lucas recounted the abuse she endured during the 1970s, perpetrated by a Belgian network to which her mother had "sold" her when she was just six years old. However, I'm not going to delve into those specifics. Instead, I want to discuss the coping concept that Lucas brought up during the interview: a concept called "Reenactment," which I found mind-blowing.

"Reenactment" essentially involves revisiting past traumas either within oneself or through others. For example, when I was a child, I was heavily bullied. I managed to remove myself from that situation by standing up for myself. Now, I project this onto my own children. Two of my kids can protect themselves, and I've conditioned them to love boxing. I've presented it to them as a game, insisting on avoiding any hits to the head, regardless of whether they're wearing gloves. I even discourage my children from engaging in pillow fights, as I firmly believe that any sort of blow to the head, even from a soft pillow, can be harmful due to the risk of concussion. Instead, I mostly teach them eight types of punches and create random combinations that they need to execute correctly. For instance, "1 body-1-3" translates to a jab to the body, jab to the head, and then a front hook. There are many such games that I've created, which ultimately improve their punching technique. I've realized that what I'm essentially doing is reenacting my own harsh experiences, helping them protect themselves before anything harmful happens to them.

I've also been deeply traumatized by the movie "The Shining", specifically the scene with the twin girls blocking the hallway for Danny. I've used ChatGPT about four times to simulate playing as Danny and altering the encounter, such as complimenting the twins' smiles or expressing understanding of their struggles. When the twins get morbid, I've had Danny kiss their cheeks and ask them to chill. Now that I understand the concept of reenactment, I realize that these actions are my way of revisiting scary or bitter moments and trying to fix them.

In contrast, Anneke Lucas' examples of reenactment are much different. She mentions that abusers inflict harm on children to the point where they can see their own helpless reflections. This provides a sense of relief or a high for the abusers, as it temporarily lifts the burdens of their unresolved childhood traumas. Although this concept seems illogical, it does attempt to explain the gratification some adults seem to derive from abusing children.

In my own life, I experienced being both the bullied and the bully. As a child, I was a victim of bullying, but in high school, I turned into a bully myself (I still got bullied in first grade of high school). I don't think that bullying others healed my psychological wounds. Rather, it was the power and respect that came with being a bully that I enjoyed, I can give someone money and make them buy me food from the cafetaria, if I left my bag at class I can ask someone to bring it to me. It allowed me to make demands and associate with groups that indulged my ADHD tendencies, like skipping school and smoking in the restroom. It also set a standard for how I expected others to treat me. If they didn't comply, I bullied them. While my actions were learned from those who bullied me, I didn't become a bully to reenact my past experience onto my victims; I merely enjoyed the perks of being a bully.

I believe this aspect of my personality disappeared when I went to a university in a different city, where physical confrontations weren't a viable solution. I also sustained a severe injury and later found religion, which disapproves of many things that I had once considered acceptable.

edit: Anyway, I never like the ideas of bullying an easy target, I always had/have good relationship with someone that consider to be nerds because I share lots of common point with them for instance: video-games, and they are mostly also very nice and kind to me (not at all a snob). Unlike most of my friends, I still going out Saturday night with kids that follow lame after school activity like "choir" in catholic school, because they were mostly rpg gamer who just don't want trouble at school.

My target mostly are the one who don't give me the "respect" that I need, and they are mostly popular students, type of students that bring gel at school to be apply at the toilet or use fancy eye-glasses even though they don't have any problem with their eyes. And of course they were mostly complied to me at the end, because if they don't I will lose sleeps until they do the due after the "disrespect" they showed me, so I mostly make sure I saved my face with them giving me what I want.

 

[Narz]

Sounds like exposure therapy. You put yourself (either actually or mentally) into a similar situation in which you were traumatized expect this time you have the power to escape or overcome it.

 

[H4run]

Sounds like exposure therapy. You put yourself (either actually or mentally) into a similar situation in which you were traumatized expect this time you have the power to escape or overcome it.

Yea I think it's like that, I never really realize that's my motive: to revisit my trauma and do things right this time or to altered things right. It's funny how we are coping with our past experience and trauma through certain mechanism, a very methodical mechanism, however when we are not realizing our own motive and behavioral pattern until others point it out. It's like an instinctive pattern on how we human responding and coping our problems.

The same also with my mother in law with a huge emphasis on child education, that's actually her own insecurity toward her own failure (in her perspective) and discontinuation of her own education. Peoples projected themselves into others, it's often overstated but this happened quite a lot.

 

[Narz]

Yeah seems like trends both personal and societal are overcompensations rocking back and forth