WHY was the celtic civilization removed from the game??

B

Breogánn

Chieftain
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Nov 23, 2005
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Galiza (western Europe)
Why don´t we have the celts around in civ 4?? My culture (celt) has been one of the most important and influential throughout history, at least here in old Europe. Our cultural legacy has standed the test of time and is still alive & kicking nowadays. Not to mention the mighty, fierce and hardened celtic warriors and heroes, who doblegated the powerful roman empire (and other lesser ones).

I´m very, VERY displeased with that.


Long live Brennus!!!
 
Mod it in.
 
They were originally in the game, but were too overpowered. Firaxis wanted to make a balanced game that would give each civilization a chance to win.
 
They have to cut it off somewhere. My historical knowledge must be lacking but I don't recall them being a major and important civ, more eye candy, or in this case, history candy :/
 
I hope they do, modded civs are just fine but they arent standard, can be overpowering, and good luck finding another player with same mod loaded. I want to see a UU axeman in the game pretty bad :) I'd like to see some other civs as well, like Polish civ for examble, and of coruse the Zulu. Carthage might be a tough sell, another chariot Civ? Maybe it could be War Elephant civ, that would be sweet! Vikings are a must, and I dont care what these idiots come upw ith, ti must be an Axeman or Galley UU.
 
they werent even in vanilla civ 3. they were added in i think PTW. they might be in the expansion.
 
Astax said:
They have to cut it off somewhere. My historical knowledge must be lacking but I don't recall them being a major and important civ, more eye candy, or in this case, history candy :/
Click to expand...

Very important indeed. There's a lot more to Celtic history than step dances and potato famines. To name just one example, Celtic monks kept the lamp of learning -- such as it was -- lit during the Dark Ages. A big chunk of humanity would have lost a lot of what it had known about the world had these guys not been so diligent. The Arabs were preserving science and maths against extinction around the same time IIRC.

"Major" (in the sense of politically powerful and/or culturally dominant) and "important" are two different things. :-) Importance can be earned by smaller cultures just as by larger ones.

When -- WHEN, not if -- an expansion reintroduces the Celts, I think they should also add a new animal unit: snakes. Celtic missionaries will be doubly effective against 'em. ;-)

P.S.: It's easy to think of the Celts as being Irish, Scots, Welsh. But don't forget there are still areas of continental Europe whose cultures are Celtic.
 
Astax said:
They have to cut it off somewhere. My historical knowledge must be lacking but I don't recall them being a major and important civ, more eye candy, or in this case, history candy :/
Click to expand...

The Celts and neo-Celts had a sphere of influence that ran from Germany to all of the brittish isles... all of the Iberian Peninsula and east into Turkey. They were at the hight of their influence prior to written history. There is some historical speculation that the Hittites (referenced in many ancient texts) were in fact a Celtic peoples. Reguardless of truth in this the fact that historians consider it a possibility should give indications of the breadth of their influence during the dawn of history.

They were likely the first to introduce pottery, writing, and farming into of europe. Their empire/influence lasted a huge period in time spanning from pre-history straight through to post-Roman times. As the OP mentioned they did cause Rome a massive heartache... the German tribes had multiple wars with them... Goths, Ostrogoths, Visgoths, Saxons, Angles, nordic tribes... all got smacked around at one time or another by Cletic tribes. Hell the Etruscans were wiped out by them. The core of their civilization in roman times was centered on the Brittish isles and most of france and central Europe.They were a fractured empire and many times turned on themselves. Ultimately they were conquered peice by peice since they had no centralized government or unifying figure. They were subdued and assimilated. Their language and customs leaves its mark on many european cultures. Today the most "Celtic" of peoples left are the Welsh,Irish, and Scots... Gaelic is considered an offshoot of the originial celtic language... which is an ancient language that existed at the same time as Latin and has as many modern derivitives (giving a rough show of influence).

So yeah... they had a massive impact. Sadly, most of it before Greco-Roman historians and therefore we have no firm grasp on the extent or details of their vast power.

And yeah... I'm also missing their appearance.

-Weasel
 
Breogánn said:
Why don´t we have the celts around in civ 4?? My culture (celt) has been one of the most important and influential throughout history, at least here in old Europe. Our cultural legacy has standed the test of time and is still alive & kicking nowadays. Not to mention the mighty, fierce and hardened celtic warriors and heroes, who doblegated the powerful roman empire (and other lesser ones).

I´m very, VERY displeased with that.


Long live Brennus!!!
Click to expand...

Ever read the "Gallo Bellum" of J. Caesar? Ever heard about boudicca's revolt? Roma victor!
 
There's a limit on how many civs you can add to a game with a given budget. For Civ4, this limit was 18 civs. To determine which civs would be implemented, Firaxis seems to have used the same criteria as in previous releases:

1. Historical importance
2. Inhabitating a spot on earth from which few civs are implemented already

While the historical importance of the Celts is cetainly there, they do have the problem that - as opposed to the Romans or Greeks, for example - our knowledge about them is fairly limited and that they don't belong to the "classical" culture civilizations of their era.

Still, they did have enough importance (and stir enough interest in today's people) to make including them worthwile, however then the second problem kicks in: They inhabited a piece of the earth that is already quite crowded in Civ.

So there were reasons to choose other civilizations for the base game, but I'm sure the Celts will at least be considered for an expansion.
 
Oh no, another one of those "Why is MY civilization not in the game" threads

If the Celts, why not the Poles, who actually had an empire, and bequethed to the world Copernicus and Chopin

If the Celts, why not the Dutch, who once had an empire stretching from New York to Indonesia, invented the first stock exchange and central bank, and brought the world Van Gogh and Edam cheese.

If the Celts, why not the Italians, who gave us the Renaissance and Pizza.

If the Celts, why not the Portuguese, whose empire stretched from Brazil to Malaya.

If the Celts, why not the Turks, who ruled one of the world's most powerful empires, and gave us coffee and Turkish delight.

What's notable about the current line-up of civs is that most of the included civs were powerful and significant not just for a few centuries back in the Dark Ages but for a big chunk of history, including the Middle Ages and modern era. The understandable exceptions are the Greeks and Romans (who between them founded western civilization) and the Americans (who now dominate the world). Other civilizations which were big in ancient times but then eclipsed have not been included. Hence no Hittites, Babylonians, Assyrians, or Celts. IMHO this is quite correct. The Celts did not create a big empire. The Irish, Welsh. Bretons and Cornish have no doubt brought the world many wonderful things, but superpowers or even powers they ain't and weren't.
 
Jabba said:
The Celts did not create a big empire.
Click to expand...

In our world. In Civ it can be different. :-) Don't care to think how many C3 games I played in which the Iroquois were a major late-game power -- and not easy to deal with.

I see Civ as giving those other cultures another chance to strut their stuff. Kinda. Sorta.
 
Jabba said:
Oh no, another one of those "Why is MY civilization not in the game" threads

...

The Celts did not create a big empire. The Irish, Welsh. Bretons and Cornish have no doubt brought the world many wonderful things, but superpowers or even powers they ain't and weren't.
Click to expand...


The Celts most certainly did fit the bill of a superpower in their day. I assume you think the Romans did from your banter. The Romans were scared to death of the Celts. This in a time when the Celts' influence and power was already in the twilight. There are many more reasons why I'd say that they fit the bill, but they most certainly did.


For the love of gaming can't people come in and talk about the game without someone being a prick?

This is a game about civilizations. Some were selected and some were not. This is a message board dedicated to the game of Civilization. If you have an issue with someone posting a question as to why a specific civilization wasn't selected in a game dedicated to civilizations in a forum dedicated to that game... then why the hell are you reading these boards?

Here is a more suitable website... you will find no discussion of civilizations here:

www.disney.com

-Weasel
 
The Neo-Nazis did it. Have you seen the character of the people who PR for this game? Sad...
 
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