Wild Mana for FF

[deadliver]

Yeah Warkirby, I like the idea of the negative mana nodes influencing the terrain around them.

 

[Breez]

So i wanted to try this out, because i really like the idea, but starting my first game i got this:View attachment 213324

Seems a tad excessive...
This is playing ff patch n, with the flavour start enabled, if that makes any difference.

I tried 3 games of Erebus map and I got the same thing each time. Did not happen when I did Oasis map tho. I think it is related to Erebus map script

 

[Valkrionn]

That would be why I didn't catch it then..... I dislike that map. It also places resources differently from what I can tell, so it might cause problems atm.

 

[WarKirby]

I've recently discovered that the erebus mapscript takes ridiculously long to setup.

I thought map setup times were just bad in general, but I've found that trying almost any other mapscript at all generates a map in about 1/3 of the time with identical settings.

 

[The NeverTide]

I've recently discovered that the erebus mapscript takes ridiculously long to setup.

I thought map setup times were just bad in general, but I've found that trying almost any other mapscript at all generates a map in about 1/3 of the time with identical settings.

THAT'S what that is?!

I'm going back to playing balanced for a while then.

On the note of tiles affecting units/tiles around them I think it's a great idea. I especially like the way the water node works and WarKirby's idea for the wind node. Law mana could give loyalty to nearby units, maybe units belong to a good/neutral civ? I agree with the Earth node, maybe it could increase the chance for a popped resource on surrounding hills instead of a production bonus. Dimensional mana could have a small percentage chance (5%ish) of teleporting units in a 1 tile radius. Entropy should also have a small chance to give the withered promotion to living units. Sun mana could give extra visibility to anyone standing on it (like a mini mirror of heaven) and slowly convert surrounding tiles to desert/oasis. Spirit mana could randomly cure diseases and/or give hope. Ummm... Ice could, obviously, spread ice, and maybe cast slow on units without the winterborn promotion. Shadow mana could have a small percentage of giving hide to nearby units (ambush?). Maybe instead of subtracting food death could make haunted lands?

Okay, so I got carried away. But one idea leads to another that leads to another etc. I really like how this mod is already turning out, and I would also really like to see mana nodes take on a more distinctive role.

Now if only Iceciro would include Doviello+ and this in Fall Flat, then I wouldn't be too dismayed by having to pick between cool mana and more interesting AI races and having awesome wizard power of doom.

 

[Valkrionn]

Hmm.... I like your suggestions. Particularly with the terrains.. And the haunted lands is good. Something beneficial, with negative consequences.... which necromantic arts should be.

 

[The NeverTide]

Are you just looking for terrain ideas? I can throw some more out, not all of which will be very good though. I think the haunted lands would be fitting. I like the idea of the Scions hunting down those nodes, and of sanctify (and by proxy life) becoming even more useful.
I think life mana being able to keep hell terrain out of a 1-3 tile radius would be really cool. Would really help during high AC games, but it wouldn't necessarily have much [additional] use otherwise. Nature mana could increase the forest grow rate in an x tile radius, and maybe even allow ancient forests within a 1-2 tile radius of it. I have a couple of random ideas for creation mana. It could have a chance to create a food resource around it, it could automatically spawn animals (also kind of a nature thing), or it could increase the birthrate (either normal or GP) in cities within a certain radius (or that work it, I like this one). I prefer the latter choice personally. I also think creation should give a + bonus like enchantment, but maybe that's just me. Enchantment mana could be a lot of fun, I think. As far as terrain goes, I'm kind of at a loss for it though. This might be waaaay overpowered, but maybe enchantment mana could speed up build times for improvements around it? I think wild fire mana should also randomly summon enraged fireballs/azear(I think that's their name) to represent the element's new instability. Entropy could turn nearby resourced (not tiles) into their hell terrain equivalent, sa in horses to nightmare and wheat to razorweed (I think). I just think this idea is cool.
Ever since I played as the Savartlafar (sp?) I've always wanted a unique tile improvement for them, the shrouded woods. I don't exactly know what it would entail mechanic wise, but I just like it. Whenever I think of Ljosalfar and Savartlafar I always think of nature vs. shadow. If anyone were to ever incorporate an improvement like that, I totally see shadow mana spreading it or converting the tiles around it. Maybe making [recon and animal?] units automatically hidden inside, making it a good place to hid when your scout is getting chased by x barbarians. Or a bad place, should there be someone else hiding there.
And it would be hilarious if dimensional mana ITSELF teleported around the map. Ah, that would be really interesting.

Anyway, hope you find something in here that inspires you. Good luck huntin!

 

[WarKirby]

I think creation should give +1 food in all tiles within 1 radius.
It opposes entropy, which would give a negative food penalty

Also, vehem is working on some neat idea concerning twisted, evil forests, which may fll your desire for that sort of thing. look back a page or two in this forum for a poll started by him.

 

[shrike2005]

I tried 3 games of Erebus map and I got the same thing each time. Did not happen when I did Oasis map tho. I think it is related to Erebus map script

Mine was on the ica age map script. but i seem to remember that in the original the nodes would give better yields once they were improved, so mayby the map script uses them as standard ressoucres, if your allocated starting plot isn't that great?

 

[Valkrionn]

Hmm.... I thought I removed the tag that allows them to be placed to balance starts, might have missed some. Either way, it'll be completely rewritten soon as I get this damn dll to compile......

 

[Vermicious Knid]

I love the idea of wild mana nodes spreading terrain/features. Boosts to production or granting promotions to units is cool as well...it gives civs that don't usually have much use for extra mana a reason to want nodes.

It would be really cool to see haunted lands surrounding death nodes, ancient forests surrounding nature nodes, burnt forests and smoke around a fire node, desert with a sun node in the center, etc...

Chaos should definitely mutate any units that step on it, just like the chaos flare event. Body could improve healing rate, life could cure disease and sanctify the region around it, spirit could grant courage, etc...

I'm imagining a civ having to sit a warden on an entropy node to prevent the hell from leaking out. That seems like all kinds of perfect.

 

[Breez]

Can you explain the mechanic on stepping on a node for the 1st time? It blows up the invis liar and stops units from spawning... but there is a small chance to gain the level 1 spell associated with that mana type? What is the % chance? Can you get more than one possibly?

My Malakin Scout has scorch. Let me just say, "YES!" every turn he is using that spell enacting an interesting scorched earth plan.

 

[Valkrionn]

Actually, atm nothing happens when you step on it. It shouldn't trigger anything.

 

[Breez]

hmm... is there ANYWAY my scout could have gotten that then? I sure didn't do it in world builder and forget about it. heh

 

[deadliver]

Maybe from a dungeon/lair result that discovered mana? One time that happened to me and the scout ended up with Magic Eye.

 

[Jheral]

I don't know if this has been suggested before (I can't see it in this thread, in any case), but how about mana-specific mutations being the results of extended exposure to 'wild' mana (%-chance for staying too long in the spot, or something that was applied when 'exploring' it, as it were)?

As in the 'mutated' promotion being added, along with resistances/weaknesses to damage types related to the mana in question (elemental nodes, maybe?), increased/decreased healing abilities (life/entropy) or similar effects (only minor, or perhaps temporary, effects, so as to not unbalance things too much).

 

[TitanZ]

Actually, atm nothing happens when you step on it. It shouldn't trigger anything.

You do get the "Lair Destroyed" message and SFX when stepping on a Wild Mana node, but I never got any sort of promotion. Is spawning in the current implementation because I never saw anything come from a mana node? (Or maybe it's because I squashed them )

Seeing some interesting civ behavior using the Wild Mana mod. I'm playing on a large, fractal map and started on a small continent with Bannor and The Clan (I'm Malakim). The interesting thing is Bannor seems to hoarding mana nodes. They are settling cities well away from their capital just to control the mana nodes. I've never seen this in a vanilla FF game, especially from Bannor. Maybe the Amurites or Sheaim, but not Bannor. I now have two of their cities that they settled along my border completely encircled and am going for a big culture push to try and flip the cities, but that's pointless unless you have oodles of Great Bards. So, the new plan is to Scorch the hell outta all their terrain. Good thing about Decius is you can be a little .

 

[deadliver]

Valkrionn, are you going to keep mana sites as eligible for city founding? If so, is that going to complicate making them explorable? (if you are not planning on doing this I will mod it for myself).

 

[Valkrionn]

I don't know if this has been suggested before (I can't see it in this thread, in any case), but how about mana-specific mutations being the results of extended exposure to 'wild' mana (%-chance for staying too long in the spot, or something that was applied when 'exploring' it, as it were)?

As in the 'mutated' promotion being added, along with resistances/weaknesses to damage types related to the mana in question (elemental nodes, maybe?), increased/decreased healing abilities (life/entropy) or similar effects (only minor, or perhaps temporary, effects, so as to not unbalance things too much).

That was actually my main idea if I make them explorable.

You do get the "Lair Destroyed" message and SFX when stepping on a Wild Mana node, but I never got any sort of promotion. Is spawning in the current implementation because I never saw anything come from a mana node? (Or maybe it's because I squashed them )

Seeing some interesting civ behavior using the Wild Mana mod. I'm playing on a large, fractal map and started on a small continent with Bannor and The Clan (I'm Malakim). The interesting thing is Bannor seems to hoarding mana nodes. They are settling cities well away from their capital just to control the mana nodes. I've never seen this in a vanilla FF game, especially from Bannor. Maybe the Amurites or Sheaim, but not Bannor. I now have two of their cities that they settled along my border completely encircled and am going for a big culture push to try and flip the cities, but that's pointless unless you have oodles of Great Bards. So, the new plan is to Scorch the hell outta all their terrain. Good thing about Decius is you can be a little .

They tend to take awhile to spawn, particularly as most of them spawn for the Demon civ right now.... When I was setting it up, I forgot that they aren't allowed to spawn until the AC is higher.

Hmmm.... The original author played with the values of the mana resources, and I imported those changes, so that is actually reasonable. I'm not sure that I mind it, actually.

Valkrionn, are you going to keep mana sites as eligible for city founding? If so, is that going to complicate making them explorable? (if you are not planning on doing this I will mod it for myself).

It shouldn't interfere with settling on mana at all, you'll just have to explore it first like a regular lair.

 

[The NeverTide]

So I forgot to give some spawn ideas before, so I'll throw some out. Before that though, 3 things to consider: 1. I interpret the way you're going to do this as having "spawner" wandering creatures and gaurdian node protecting creatures, so in most cases I put the weakest first so they could wander and the more powerful second to guard; 2. I listed at least 2 usually tried to find 4, I don't know if you like the idea of it but what if wild mana nodes that haven't been conquered get more powerful spawns after a certain time/tech req./whatever? 3. The more choices I provide, the easier this should be on you. Anyway, here you go.

Death- Skeletons, revenants, haunts, horned dreads.
Entropy- Tar demons, pit beasts, hell hounds, beasts of Agares.
Dimensional- Gnoslings, thades, djinn.
Nature- Fawns, guardian vines, minotaurs, treants.
Life- Monks, angels, radiant guards, seraphs.
Shadow- Specters, ghostwalkers, mistforms.
Air- Lightening elementals, air elementals, manticore.
Body- Bone golem, flesh golem, bone horde(?).
Chaos- Freaks, abominations(?), chaos marauders.
Creation- Immortal (yeah.. this one was hard, so that's all I got)
Earth- Hill giants, earth elementals.
Enchantment- Wood golems, iron golems, clockwork golems.
Fire- Azear(I..think), fireballs/meteors (enraged?), fire elementals.
Ice- Frostlings, frostling archer/wolf riders, ice elementals.
Law- Host of Einherjar, demagogs, heralds, angels of death/seraphs(?).
Mind- Psions (that's all I really got..)
Sun- Lightbringers, Aurealis
Water- Drown, Ira, water elementals.

So a couple in there are insubstantial, but you could either repeat spawns (no one said they couldn't spawn the same things) or just make new units. The latter probably isn't worth the trouble though. Also, I really couldn't think of anything that great for force of spirit. I was thinking maybe spirit could have a mechanic that disallowed any combat in a 1 tile radius, but that got shot out of the air as soon as Deadliver mentioned something about settling on nodes, and then of course settling even near a spirit node would be unbalanced. Just thought it would be fitting if Sirona's nodes would grant a form of sanctuary really.

Anyway, there you are. Probably cause you a headache with all of these posts.