Will George Bush have a 2nd term?

[Zarn]

Originally posted by Dumb pothead
The poll results are pretty dramatic so far: Very little support for Bush at all apparently, either at home or abroad. Looks like Bush can kiss goodbye the much coveted CFC vote!

You have to admit that CFC is more in the left, generally, so there is a definate bias against Bush.

 

[omichyron]

Originally posted by Zarn


You have to admit that CFC is more in the left, generally, so there is a definate bias against Bush.

that's because most of the so called "white trash" in this country doesn't have personal computers

and obviously I'm joking, so there's no need to throw a fit

 

[Roundman]

Originally posted by Norlamand


With reasonable concessions on either side much of the problem could be overcome...........but that isn't likely.

Its a shame, as our country as a whole suffers from that fact. Let's face it, many people simply aren't cut out for college or the "white-collar" world. Industrial jobs provided those with less education an oppurtunity to work at jobs that provided decent pay and health insurance, two things that are much rarer in the service industry. Now, were stuck with a system that has a large number or uneducated, underemployed people who expect the government to provide for them, and even worse, need the government to take care of them because there is little availiable employment that makes a suitable living. My father's union took a 50% paycut to keep their jobs, and they're lucky that they kept them. His plant was shut down for nine months last year. I think that if there were more stable manufacturing jobs there would be less of a need for welfare, public health care, etc, because the workers and their companies would take care of the problems.

I lived in Montgomery County and spent a good deal of time in "Fredneck" and Frostburg with friends. Beautiful country, I'd love to move back there.

People in Montgomery county consider Frederick to be redneck. We consider that to be the city. I'm from Grantsville, about 10 miles west of Frostburg. Some of my friends go to Frostburg State University.

 

[Zarn]

Originally posted by omichyron


that's because most of the so called "white trash" in this country doesn't have personal computers

and obviously I'm joking, so there's no need to throw a fit

I know you are kidding, but the Republicans have very little uneducated and poor voters. It hurts the stereotype. You would also may be surprised of how much Republicans or people that lean right aren't WASPs. Actually between 40 and 45 percent of Catholics are said that have voted for Bush in 2000. The Democrats had a slightly larger number.

 

[Roundman]

Originally posted by Zarn

I know you are kidding, but the Republicans have very little uneducated and poor voters.

That's not true. Many Republican voters are poor and uneducated. Many strongly Republican areas are poor. However, there are also many poor, uneducated people who vote Democrat.

 

[Norlamand]

Originally posted by delsully
I said minority woman, she's whiter than I am.

Before you hit the panic button there chief, why don't you read and comprehend what I wrote before you go to reactionary tactics. Nowhere did I say people should not work and that jobs suck. I will say that companies and the government should have reponsible policies when it comes to the working class. Many say it's OK for corporations that make tens of millions a year to pay $6.50 an hr. and make employees pay for their insurance. Sure, that's great for the bottom line. But how does that guy raise a family? He doesnt, he can't. But don't let these workers form a union, no, they'll all sit around and do nothing all day an can't be fired. Come on people, you actually believe this stereotype? It IS the govenment reponsibility to the company and the employee to set ground rules of conduct, just as it is the workers right to unionize. Or would you prefer a sweatshop down the street? Maybe if your kid isn't to bright he can work there before Microsoft hires him.

So Ms. Rice's political affiliations overshadow her heritage when discussing her "minority" status? I had forgotten that blacks to the right of center to any degree are Uncle Toms or the female equivalent in this case. She may be shocked to find that she is so white.

If anyone has hit the panic button here it may well be you (see your first post to me). No reactionary tactics were employed, simply refuting the tripe in your rant. We may both be served by employing civil tactics in debating the issue.

As for the "jobs suck" comment I refer you to your own CFC profile under the heading "occupation".

On the whole I agree that both government and companies have a responsibility to act in a fair and moral fashion (see my post to Roundman which followed the post to you). I don't see any reason the government can't regulate the work environment to make it safe and equitable, but it has no role in mandating wages and benefits. The meddling of government agencies and the grasping demands of unions have made it unprofitable for many companies to maintain their US plants. It results in the workers being hurt when the corp moves its operations overseas. The companies are there to make MONEY, not to provide jobs. If they can do both they will, but if the profit suffers they will move. Simple economics that the socialists out there can't stand and wish to regulate out of existence.

As for the stereotype you hold out, yes I do believe that it contains a certain amount of truth. Having worked for the federal government for a time it is all too true. Not a universal truth, but certainly a verifiable truism. Unions serve a valuable role in the labor market, but they fail to see how they drive themselves out of jobs. Greed on their part is as rampant as it is on the corporate side.

 

[The Chosen One]

Originally posted by Roundman


... and my community will continue to weep as our industrial jobs get shipped overseas. Oh well, its not like the Democrats would make any difference in that respect. We're ****ed either way.

This is a fine example of how many people here no little about economics. People in your ocmmunity are losing jobs huh? Should those jobs stay in america? no, no one wins or loses in trade, trade benefits both sides. Sure jobs are going to other countries, but other countries are building manufacturing plants in the US also, creating jobs for americans.

 

[Zarn]

Originally posted by Roundman


That's not true. Many Republican voters are poor and uneducated. Many strongly Republican areas are poor. However, there are also many poor, uneducated people who vote Democrat.

Nope, Republicans tend to have more college degrees and with that alot more money. There are many Republicans in Democrat areas. They are just in minority, hence why they are Democrat areas. Demcrats attract the poor people from the cities and metro areas.

 

[The Chosen One]

Oh and you wanna know one reason why big business gets some tax cuts? Alright well, think about this. People who make steel are losing their jobs, but the tech industry needs people to fill jobs. All of those steel workers aren't qualified they need training. Well training is expensive and the government will give a tax break to companies who go ahead and train those unemployed workers to fill the new jobs.

 

[Roundman]

Originally posted by The Chosen One

This is a fine example of how many people here no little about economics. People in your ocmmunity are losing jobs huh? Should those jobs stay in america? no, no one wins or loses in trade, trade benefits both sides. Sure jobs are going to other countries, but other countries are building manufacturing plants in the US also, creating jobs for americans.

Have you been paying attention to the news for the past decade or two? The US is hemorraghing manufacturing jobs, and the few companies setting up shop in the US aren't making up for them. Besides, econ whiz, tell me how many Chinese companies are setting up shop here in the US? I've heard all the standard Neo-liberal arguments about why its a good thing that we have no manufacturing in the US, about how we are better off without it, and I've seen first hand that the arguments are wrong.

 

[Roundman]

Originally posted by Zarn

Demcrats attract the poor people from the cities and metro areas.

Republicans attract the poor people in rural areas.

 

[Roundman]

Originally posted by The Chosen One
. People who make steel are losing their jobs, but the tech industry needs people to fill jobs. All of those steel workers aren't qualified they need training. Well training is expensive and the government will give a tax break to companies who go ahead and train those unemployed workers to fill the new jobs.

Too bad that that doesn't happen. Many tech jobs that can be filled by people with a little bit of company training are being rapidly shipped overseas. The availiable positions mostly require at least a bachelors degree. Many unemployed steel workers simply don't have the time and can't afford to go to college, as they have families to support. This theory doesn't hold up.

 

[The Chosen One]

OMG, listen these aren't theories, go to college and learn something. It was an example i'm not saying steel workers are going to become tech workers
Calling these theories just magnifies the lack sense you have about economic matters.

 

[Roundman]

Originally posted by The Chosen One
OMG, listen these aren't theories, go to college and learn something. It was an example i'm not saying steel workers are going to become tech workers
Calling these theories just magnifies the lack sense you have about economic matters.

OMG, I am in college and I have learned things. :die:
You have terrible arguing skills. Besides, judging from your amazing writing skills, my guess is that you are still in high school.

Anyway, yes, you just said that companies get tax breaks so they can afford to train unemployed steel workers to become tech workers. If the example is pointless and supposed to be ignored, why mention it?

Moderator Action: Attempting to insult another poster doesn't say a lot of your debate skills, so stop. Eyrei.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[delsully]

Sure, a companie's main objective is to be profitable. However, to say it has no responsablity to its workers or its community is being naive. Going by your arguement, if a companies bottom line is the only thing that matter, then conversely, a worker should get as much from the company as it can. Why work hard when you can get paid for loafing? So why do you blast the worker for this logic, when in fact, it is using the same logic as the company.

What people fail to realize is that it is a mutual relationship between employer and employee. If one works for a company that does not repsect the worker, why should the worker bust his hump for the company? According to your logic, he shouldn't. Why do you take the human factor out of the equation? Simple ecenomics that the capitalist out there can't stand and wish to regulate out of existence! Maybe we can breed a class of mindless workers?

As for Rice, it was a joke there buddy. And as far as the jobs suck thing, that was when an able bodied, college educated man could not find a good job for a decent wage. Thankfully, that has been resolved.

As far as stereotypes, how about the one dealing with corporate America being a greedy, money-grabbing, profit at all costs entity with no conscience. Ever hear of that one? But of course, there probably is no truth in that. It's an invention of those union slubs who sit around and do nothing all day, while Republicans are applying their "can do" attitudes to solve all of our society's ills whith there "small goverment", btw, which costs considerably nmore that the Dems. Hmm, ever ponder that one?

 

[omichyron]

exporting jobs = bad for working class

 

[Archer 007]

Originally posted by Roundman


Republicans attract the poor people in rural areas.

Yeah, we call that the Heehaw vote

 

[Martacus]

Originally posted by omichyron


that's because most of the so called "white trash" in this country doesn't have personal computers

and obviously I'm joking, so there's no need to throw a fit

Well, at any rate, Bush certainly isn't in the running to replace Lincoln come Civ 4.

Truthfully, I'm fairly conservative and I think Bush is doing a rotten job. I don't believe in voting along party lines. That said, I'm off to the polls today to re-elect my city's mayor, a Democrat. Have a good day.

 

[Archer 007]

Originally posted by Roundman


That's not true. Many Republican voters are poor and uneducated. Many strongly Republican areas are poor. However, there are also many poor, uneducated people who vote Democrat.

Yes, the Democrats have the urban poor and the Republicans have the poor Southerns.

BTW, I agree Zarn with your view that most of CFC is left-wing. I kinda miss the old days when it was more balanced.

 

[metalhead]

Yes, for none of the reasons in the poll. His opposition is a bunch of ass.