Wonder balance and new wonders - post 1.5

[Krschtschn]

Today I tried building the Kalmar castle as Denkmark and realized that I cannot get the production bonus from stone, because there is not a single stone ressource in Scandinavia. So the historical region has a disadvantage in building its own wonder. I think that shouldn't be the case. Could the necessary resource be changed to marble? There is a marble plot next to Kopenhagen, meaning it's at least feasible that Sweden could get access.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Today I tried building the Kalmar castle as Denkmark and realized that I cannot get the production bonus from stone, because there is not a single stone ressource in Scandinavia. So the historical region has a disadvantage in building its own wonder. I think that shouldn't be the case. Could the necessary resource be changed to marble? There is a marble plot next to Kopenhagen, meaning it's at least feasible that Sweden could get access.

Agreed and noted.
Will probably add a stone somewhere in the area.

 

[AtlantaMarty]

The more, the merrier, especially since with 4 new civs, there will be more wonder competition.

12-15 new techs might be nice as well...

 

[AbsintheRed]

Does anyone have a nice wonder bonus idea for Westminster Abbey?
I can't come up with one I'm statisfied with.
Was even thinking about removing the wonder, but I would prefer not to.

 

[8ha8ha]

Does anyone have a nice wonder bonus idea for Westminster Abbey?
I can't come up with one I'm statisfied with.
Was even thinking about removing the wonder, but I would prefer not to.

This wonder is so strong. I like it so much. It is almost the only way of a big country to stablize (by change to religious tolerance)

 

[AbsintheRed]

I removed all "enabling all civics of a given type" wonder effects.
There were some discussions about it a while back.
The consensus was that those are very unbalanced and kinda immersion-breaking.

This is one of the worse ones for balance. As you mention it, with it there is no need to fight with other religions in your cities, makes persecution pointless.
Big empires should be unstable (have big negative stability modifiers from religion) if they have significant religious minorities.

It's also ruining the Hungarian Edict of Torda UHV (first to Religious Tolerance).
Similarly, the others have many issues.
For example making the civic-related unique powers less powerful.

 

[8ha8ha]

I removed all "enabling all civics of a given type" wonder effects.
There were some discussions about it a while back.
The consensus was that those are very unbalanced and kinda immersion-breaking.

This is one of the worse ones for balance. As you mention it, with it there is no need to fight with other religions in your cities, makes persecution pointless.
Big empires should be unstable (have big negative stability modifiers from religion) if they have significant religious minorities.

It's also ruining the Hungarian Edict of Torda UHV (first to Religious Tolerance).
Similarly, the others have many issues.
For example making the civic-related unique powers less powerful.

oh oh, but it is very painful for waiting so long after Protestant started and before Religious Tolerance can be chosen. (About 100 year is needed)

 

[The Turk]

Does anyone have a nice wonder bonus idea for Westminster Abbey?

It was an Abbey (monastery), and a source of legitimacy for the English Kings (where all Kings of England were crowned post-1066, and many buried). It also owned a lot of land in England. Perhaps something related piety? Just some ideas.

 

[AbsintheRed]

oh oh, but it is very painful for waiting so long after Protestant started and before Religious Tolerance can be chosen. (About 100 year is needed)

The religious persecution can be very powerful, especially if used with fitting civics.
While it can be painful morally, the mod is aiming to represent centralized empires after all.
Religion was a huge source of instability in almost all cases.

 

[AbsintheRed]

It was an Abbey (monastery), and a source of legitimacy for the English Kings (where all Kings of England were crowned post-1066, and many buried). It also owned a lot of land in England. Perhaps something related piety? Just some ideas.

Yeah, would like to have something along the lines of government/legitimacy.
Piety is out, used elsewhere.

 

[DC123456789]

Yeah, would like to have something along the lines of government/legitimacy.
Piety is out, used elsewhere.

Gain a certain number of stability points based on current piety?

 

[gilgames]

that was my idea to. if you have: gives 1.5x faith points toward your current religion. or adds 1 point of stability per x faith point. (ie 10 faith / 1 stab.)

But its true, that we might need some mechanics for early starter civs to compensate the lack of the abbey. In my experience if you are quite homogen religious wise, RT still gave you like +10 stability. and many civ cannot keep a clean religion. Also if you do, protestantism will screw you big time. myabe a cap to religious instability?

 

[8ha8ha]

The religious persecution can be very powerful, especially if used with fitting civics.
While it can be painful morally, the mod is aiming to represent centralized empires after all.
Religion was a huge source of instability in almost all cases.

Yes, One of the reason for me not to use persecution is I can't accept to burn anyone just because they have another god. It is worse than invading other country IMO.

And I found that the persecution will even burn the Wonder?

 

[cmakk1012]

Yes, One of the reason for me not to use persecution is I can't accept to burn anyone just because they have another god. It is worse than invading other country IMO.

And I found that the persecution will even burn the Wonder?

You must really not like Sword of Islam, then

 

[8ha8ha]

You must really not like Sword of Islam, then

SoI I seldom burn others too. And I think the religion penalty from RFC Europe is higher than SoI.

We should respect every ghosts and gods with keeping some distance from them ---Confucius (May be poor translation sorry)

 

[Mochi_Bun]

Wooah, there goes early religious tolerance cheese strats. Heheheh.
No more overextending to asia/africa in midgame then.

On a serious note, if you managed to build west abbey early as one of iberian civ or central european civ (austria/hungary/poland) basically you win the game already. Its crazy.

 

[8ha8ha]

Wooah, there goes early religious tolerance cheese strats. Heheheh.
No more overextending to asia/africa in midgame then.

On a serious note, if you managed to build west abbey early as one of iberian civ or central european civ (austria/hungary/poland) basically you win the game already. Its crazy.

Yes Portugal is very very strong after West Abbey + Protestant

 

[2phunkey4u]

Yes Portugal is very very strong after West Abbey + Protestant

Why is that again?

 

[8ha8ha]

Why is that again?

No Religious Punishment + Protestant enhance Colonization + Portugal is a good place to defend only if You Destroy Morocoo

 

[8ha8ha]

The religious persecution can be very powerful, especially if used with fitting civics.
While it can be painful morally, the mod is aiming to represent centralized empires after all.
Religion was a huge source of instability in almost all cases.

I would like to know how to increase the opportunity of persecution(Piety? Culture of the city or anything else?)? I use Austria and want to burn the orthodox in Hungary and unsuccessful several time.