Won't you sin in Heaven?

[El_Machinae]

I think only extra-marital sex is seen as a sin ...

Though, in general, religious people seem to be prudish.

 

[bhsup]

I fail to understand why Christians view sex as sin.

Who told you that? Sex outside of marriage, that's something different, but sex itself is not a sin in any way.

 

[Markus6]

I fail to understand why Christians view sex as sin.

They don't. God made sex and he made it to be pleasurable.

The REAL no-no was the desire to seek knowledge, to understand one's condition.

No, the REAL no-no was disobeying God. Doing the one thing he told them not to do. The result was knowledge. If God didn't want us to have knowledge then why did he plant a tree of it in the middle Eden and make it the ONLY forbidden fruit? If you didn't want a kid to eat chocolate would you put a huge bar of it in the middle of his room and tell him not to eat it? If God exists do you not think he understands humanity more than you do? Am I ever going to run out of rhetorical questions?

 

[Der Sensenmann]

Who told you that? Sex outside of marriage, that's something different, but sex itself is not a sin in any way.

Then why does this discussion include references to sex as being unlikely to be present in heaven? The clear implication is that it is sin. The Bible does not seem to refer to any marriage arrangements or commitments between Adam and Eve, it only describes them as man and wife. Surely, then, sex would be possible in heaven as long as one simply uses those words to describe any liaisons.

No, the REAL no-no was disobeying God.

For which the impetus still came from curiosity, the desire for knowledge.

 

[Markus6]

For which the impetus still came from curiosity, the desire for knowledge.

The important point is that curiosity or the desire for knowledge was not what we were kicked out of the Garden for. We were kicked out of the Garden for disobeying God's instruction and eating a fruit. To suggest that God is against us having knowledge would, therefore, be wrong.

 

[Der Sensenmann]

The important point is that curiosity or the desire for knowledge was not what we were kicked out of the Garden for. We were kicked out of the Garden for disobeying God's instruction and eating a fruit. To suggest that God is against us having knowledge would, therefore, be wrong.

Why do you say that? There is no other reason for the fruit of knowledge being forbidden than that knowledge itself was forbidden. The clear message of the story is that curiosity is a bad force and leads to sin.

 

[Markus6]

There is no other reason for the fruit of knowledge being forbidden than that knowledge itself was forbidden.

Genesis 2 v17 says, "You must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die." The reason we were forbidden to eat it was that it would cause death.

Christianity for me is a story of simple good vs. complex good. The simple good was we don't eat the fruit, we remain happy in the garden blissfully ignorant. The complex good is we reject God because of our curiosity, live in a world without him and then choose (through knowledge) to turn back to him. Both results are similar (Eden vs. Heaven) but it seems quite clear the the complex good, heaven, is 'more good'. We have knowledge, experience of the alternative and still choose to be there.

 

[warpus]

The story of Adam & Eve eating an apple from the tree of knowledge of good and evil is a metaphor - It isn't meant to be read as though it actually happened.

God gave Adam & eve (ie. humanity) the option of eating from the tree (ie. understanding good & evil) with the consequence of being thrown out of paradise (ie. into a place where good & evil exist).

It is simply meant to teach us this lesson: We have free will - but along with that comes the power of doing good & evil. Watch out!

It is beyond me why anyone would want to take this story literally.

 

[MobBoss]

The story of Adam & Eve eating an apple from the tree of knowledge of good and evil is a metaphor - It isn't meant to be read as though it actually happened.

How do you know? Were you around to give us an eye witness account?

God gave Adam & eve (ie. humanity) the option of eating from the tree (ie. understanding good & evil) with the consequence of being thrown out of paradise (ie. into a place where good & evil exist).

Actually, it wasnt an option. They were forbidden to eat of the tree - it wasnt an "if" you do kind of thing.

It is simply meant to teach us this lesson: We have free will - but along with that comes the power of doing good & evil. Watch out!

Not just doing good & evil, but knowledge of it.

 

[warpus]

^^ I was a Catholic - that's what was taught to me.

Why, do you have an eye-witness account to prove me wrong? Neither of us does, so that's kinda moot.

Actually, it wasnt an option. They were forbidden to eat of the tree - it wasnt an "if" you do kind of thing

It was an option in the same sense that I have an option to kill the next person I see. The fact that Adam & Eve took from the tree implies that they had a choice - to do it or not do it.. and they did. God gave them the option of going either way by giving them free will.

There exists free will - and this leads to both good and evil. That's the point of the story.

 

[MobBoss]

Why, do you have an eye-witness account to prove me wrong? Neither of us does, so that's kinda moot.

Bingo..my point exactly.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

According to Mormonism, it really happened, but we view it in completely different terms.

For us, the whole reason that God put the tree in the garden was that He needed Adam and Eve to disobey Him - that was necessary for sin to enter the world, and sin had to enter the world to provide opposition, which is how we grow. God could only make a perfect world - He couldn't make one with sin in it. So Eve had to use her free will to disobey one of God's commandments, to fulfill a higher one. Also, sex couldn't happen (for humans, at least) before this because sex is, right or wrong, always an action fraught with moral consequences.

The reason that people are saying there might not be sex in heaven isn't that sex is necessarily inherently wrong, but that it may be just an appetite of the flesh, and we will progress beyond it. I personally don't know if there will be sex in heaven, though.

 

[warpus]

Bingo..my point exactly.

So neither of us really knows what happened - but my view is that Genesis shouldn't be taken literally. And that view appears to be shared by most Catholics, including the Vatican.

And in a strictly non-literal sense the story of Adam & Eve makes perfect sense - so that's what I'm sticking with.

 

[Der Sensenmann]

Genesis 2 v17 says, "You must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die." The reason we were forbidden to eat it was that it would cause death.

And did it result in death (at least in the short term)? Sounds more like a threat meant to drown out curiosity, thus making knowledge itself out of bounds. Whether it's taken literally or metaphorically is irrelevant, the story still carries the message that curiosity rather than lust or violent urges is the main driving force behind sin.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

And did it result in death (at least in the short term)? Sounds more like a threat meant to drown out curiosity, thus making knowledge itself out of bounds. Whether it's taken literally or metaphorically is irrelevant, the story still carries the message that curiosity rather than lust or violent urges is the main driving force behind sin.

Again, the LDS view was that it was a simple statement of fact. That is, one of the unavoidable and inherent consequences of the Fall was the introduction of physical death to humanity.

 

[Markus6]

And did it result in death (at least in the short term)? Sounds more like a threat meant to drown out curiosity, thus making knowledge itself out of bounds. Whether it's taken literally or metaphorically is irrelevant, the story still carries the message that curiosity rather than lust or violent urges is the main driving force behind sin.

It did result in death and it was in the short term if they were immortal before eating it. Curiosity was one of the causes of the fall but your reading inbetween the lines to see it as condemned. The point is now because of our curiosity and with knowledge we can still go to heaven which is preferable to Eden.

 

[downwithgravity]

You can't sin in heaven because IT DOESN'T EXIST.

What the christians refer to as heaven, the place, exists inside us all and in this reality.

 

[MobBoss]

You can't sin in heaven because IT DOESN'T EXIST.

What? Sin or heaven? Wrong on both counts however.

What the christians refer to as heaven, the place, exists inside us all and in this reality.

Uhm...so you have heaven inside you? You ever gutted a living thing? I can tell you right now that from the smell alone.....it isnt heaven.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

You can't sin in heaven because IT DOESN'T EXIST.

What the christians refer to as heaven, the place, exists inside us all and in this reality.

So you believe, and you may well be right. But I think the OP implies that hypothetically heaven in the Christian concept is seen as existing.

 

[Der Sensenmann]

It did result in death and it was in the short term if they were immortal before eating it. Curiosity was one of the causes of the fall but your reading inbetween the lines to see it as condemned. The point is now because of our curiosity and with knowledge we can still go to heaven which is preferable to Eden.

The clear implication of the threat was that eating the apple would kill instantly, thereby serving to deter curiosity. It did not. My whole point is that behaviour in heaven that is motivated by curiosity would be considered sinful.