Workers

[ls612]

It sounds reasonable. However, as you say it's not that easy. The main issues are:

• The AI doesn't really have a central command and control, so there is no concept of 'sending a unit to do XXX' (well, I've started to add one with the contract brokering system, but it's not yet widely used, and the base BTS AI has no such concept). Thus there is nothing to 'decide to send a combat worker...' - workers decide what to do on their own by looking for work that needs doing.
• Calling for reinforcements in a dangerous situation should probably not stop it ALSO seeking (local) safety (else it'll likely die before the reinforcements arrive)
• Deciding when to build them might be tricky. Currently it is city AIs that decide what needs building, and in vanilla BTS they do so themselves. In C2C they no longer go ahead and build them - instead they place an order for them, which might be picked up by the originating city, or might be picked up by some other city that is better placed to do it. This new system allows any piece of code (not just the city AI) to place such an order, so one possibility would be to have a normal worker do so when it decides there is too much danger for it to do the work itself.

It's certainly not the easiest ask you could pick as a starter However, I don't see it rating as high on my priooprity list for a while either.

Yeah, I'll put this on the back burner for now. Please check out the new AI thread I created for continuation of AI discussions, as this is only very tenuously worker related.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I am replacing the UU animal assisted workers with a generic version due to complaints. For some reason people like UUs in combat but not in workers. Personally I would prefer it the other way around.

Existing Buffalo, Elephant and Mule workers will still be in game but you wont be able to build more. You will only be able to build the Animal Assisted Worker which requires no resources or buildings.

 

[Koshling]

I am replacing the UU animal assisted workers with a generic version due to complaints. For some reason people like UUs in combat but not in workers. Personally I would prefer it the other way around.

Existing Buffalo, Elephant and Mule workers will still be in game but you wont be able to build more. You will only be able to build the Animal Assisted Worker which requires no resources or buildings.

Huh?! No special requirements? So its just part of the regular worker line then? Surely the animal assisted ones (even if generic) should require ONE of the animal resources?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Huh?! No special requirements? So its just part of the regular worker line then? Surely the animal assisted ones (even if generic) should require ONE of the animal resources?

That would be Bison, Camel, Cow (Oxen), Deer, Donkeys, Elephants, Horses, Llama, Mammoths, or Sheep but not pigs for map resources. Non-map resources Dogs and (water) Buffalo. Which still has goats missing from the list. So why bother.

Edit I may put them back in as full National Units (max 15 of them) along with the Indian Fast Worker. They will be special versions of this unit.

So

Indian Fast Worker = Worker +25% faster requires culture Indian (need to check that this is even meaning full ie culture does not come after worker upgrades)
Elephant/Mule/Buffalo = Animal Assisted Worker +25% and requires culture/resource

Elephant/Buffalo - Africa or Asian culture
Mule - European culture​

BTW the idea of having Elephant Workers work better in one terrain rather than others or being better at one type of activity will require a whole new set of tags as there is currently only one work rate to one list of actions

 

[ls612]

I am replacing the UU animal assisted workers with a generic version due to complaints. For some reason people like UUs in combat but not in workers. Personally I would prefer it the other way around.

Existing Buffalo, Elephant and Mule workers will still be in game but you wont be able to build more. You will only be able to build the Animal Assisted Worker which requires no resources or buildings.

I object strongly to this idea. Mule and Elephant workers are a much better unit comcept IMO than just the generic "Animal-Assisted Worker" (that sounds like a lab experiment, not a useful unit).

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Sorry, I have very limited time at the moment and this was something I could do quickly and now. Taxman66's complaint in the bug thread was the "last straw" to get me to do something and I was not going to make 8 new units all the same.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I object strongly to this idea. Mule and Elephant workers are a much better unit comcept IMO than just the generic "Animal-Assisted Worker" (that sounds like a lab experiment, not a useful unit).

I have to agree. I like the old system even it was not perfect. We should be able to add a Horse, Camel, Llama or Mammoth worker too by using the subdued animal graphics.

That would be Bison, Camel, Cow (Oxen), Deer, Donkeys, Elephants, Horses, Llama, Mammoths, or Sheep but not pigs for map resources. Non-map resources Dogs and (water) Buffalo. Which still has goats missing from the list. So why bother.

And if you really need a goat worker you could use the Muflon or Ibex graphics.

Edit I may put them back in as full National Units (max 15 of them) along with the Indian Fast Worker. They will be special versions of this unit.

So

Indian Fast Worker = Worker +25% faster requires culture Indian (need to check that this is even meaning full ie culture does not come after worker upgrades)
Elephant/Mule/Buffalo = Animal Assisted Worker +25% and requires culture/resource
​

Indian culture already has the Urumi Swordsman. And the Fast Worker has been remade in the form of the Rapa Nui Worker.

Elephant/Buffalo - Africa or Asian culture
Mule - European culture

BTW the idea of having Elephant Workers work better in one terrain rather than others or being better at one type of activity will require a whole new set of tags as there is currently only one work rate to one list of actions

I don't think it should matter the culture. If you are the Aztec and have an Elephant resource then you should be able to build an Elephant worker. Likewise if your Asian and have Llamas then you should have llama workers.

Note I have no problems if diffrent types of animals were better at different things. Such as Mammoths better at working in tundra while Camels better at working desert.​

 

[Taxman66]

I don't think you need to make new graphical units or worse not use the ones that exist. I just think that gaining access to them should be easier. IMO, availability of horses, cows, llamas & camels should be able to provide animal assisted workers. Heck, if we allow giraffe riders I see no reason why horses can't work on the farm (rim-shot).

I also have no objection to having them be somewhat different from each other. For example, I could see elephant workers costing more in maintance but being better than other assisted animal workers. Perhaps horse workers are more expensive (hammers) than mule workers (thus providing a benefit for actually having donkey/mules), due to there being a premium on them. However the arguement that horses are (only) for combat units is just plain silly. Far more horses are not fit combat and were used for transportation and work.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Note I have no problems if diffrent types of animals were better at different things. Such as Mammoths better at working in tundra while Camels better at working desert.

I agree these would be very cool tags. It would be very easy to do tags that could specify particular build types as being faster or slower for the unit and tags that specify certain terrain types would be interesting as well. I can put this on my list of to-dos if you like. How quickly would you want them?

 

[Thunderbrd]

oops - duplicate post

 

[MagnusIlluminus]

I object strongly to this idea. Mule and Elephant workers are a much better unit concept IMO than just the generic "Animal-Assisted Worker" (that sounds like a lab experiment, not a useful unit).

I also agree with this sentiment. I like the current system of animal workers, even with the strong requirements. It means that one game you may get elephant workers but not any others, and another game you may get several. It depends on which resources you get. If you really have to have a particular resource, you can usually find someone you can trade for it with, or failing that conquer them for it. Count me as another vote to keep the system how it is, but perhaps with a few minor tweaks. Please don't throw it out entirely, I'm looking forward to these for the multiplayer games...

 

[hotrodlincoln]

Edit: Sorry, I posted this in the wrong thread.

 

[Taxman66]

Trading for resource to build assited workers doesn't work. It's the same as trading for a horse resource... it's useless since you can't build the herd/farm from it.

 

[Koshling]

Trading for resource to build assited workers doesn't work. It's the same as trading for a horse resource... it's useless since you can't build the herd/farm from it.

Maybe we need an early version of the Great Farmer that can create herds (same as subdued horse can) and similar and which requires the relevant resource to build (and is somewhat expensive)?

 

[Taxman66]

I agree. It makes no sense why we can't transport a few horses, or whatever to build a new herd in another city. Of course the National Breeders would have to change.

In the meantime, why can't we just allow assisted workers to be built from horse, cow, camel, llama etc... resources/buildings?

 

[ls612]

Maybe we need an early version of the Great Farmer that can create herds (same as subdued horse can) and similar and which requires the relevant resource to build (and is somewhat expensive)?

That sounds reasonable. We could also make the herd generation conditional on what techs you have researched (so no Camel Herds without Camel Domestication).

 

[Hydromancerx]

If they were very expensive and limited to one at a time then it could possibly not be over powered.

However I still want the old system of the different animal workers put back. They were so cool. I very much dislike the "Animal-Assisted Worker".

 

[ls612]

If they were very expensive and limited to one at a time then it could possibly not be over powered.

However I still want the old system of the different animal workers put back. They were so cool. I very much dislike the "Animal-Assisted Worker".

I agree with this as well. Please put them back DH.

 

[MagnusIlluminus]

I agree with this as well. Please put them back DH.

I know I don't really have much influence here (except as a user), but I third the motion.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I have a solution that will keep everyone happy, sort of. The 3 will go back in as they were and for those games where you don't get any of those the "Animal Assisted Worker" will still be there. It will be available at the same time as the 3 and upgrade to them but it will work slightly slower (10 points slower) at the same cost as the 3.