World 2008 development thread.

[DVS]

Yeah, that works.

I wonder. Could America be a permanent vassal of NATO? That would make it work the way we want, right?

Yes, definitely. Have some areas of Afghanistan controlled by the first Barbarian civ.

I was thinking that NATO should be a permanent vassal of the US, if anything. The US is much bigger and has a much bigger military, so it won't stay a vassal for very long. Plus it has to have several vassals of it's own.

 

[-Raynor-]

Isn't northern Afghanistan controled by NATO? The fights are in southern regions, aren't they.

Well, I think NATO England and the rest od Europe as EU (both alied with the US, but EU to be more pacifistic) is ok, since I meant two part EU as pacifistic part and more-US bounded part, but I guess it'd be hard to name them like that

 

[NikNaks]

I was thinking that NATO should be a permanent vassal of the US, if anything. The US is much bigger and has a much bigger military, so it won't stay a vassal for very long. Plus it has to have several vassals of it's own.

That's fine with me

 

[DVS]

Isn't northern Afghanistan controled by NATO? The fights are in southern regions, aren't they.

Well, I think NATO England and the rest od Europe as EU (both alied with the US, but EU to be more pacifistic) is ok, since I meant two part EU as pacifistic part and more-US bounded part, but I guess it'd be hard to name them like that

You know I'm not as informed about Afghanistan as I should be, you could be right. I will find all this out for sure before I upload an updated file with the info for each civ. I know Canadian troops are in the south, though.

 

[-Raynor-]

I don't think NATO should be vassal of anyone, especialy if UK is in. However, if possible to script, both US and EU should be giving NATO some of their new military units.

 

[NwabudikeMorgan]

I agree with Raynor, having NATO Vassaled to the US would be really bad, as it would give the US way to much power, and it would (from a game playablilty aspect) allow the US to drop guys right next to russia at a moment's notice.

 

[NikNaks]

That's why I suggested it the other way around.

 

[NwabudikeMorgan]

you said it was fine with you for Nato to vassal to the US........ like 5 posts up the thread.....

It's best if they're completely separate entities i think.

 

[NikNaks]

Well I guess that'd work. So long as we get all the alliances correctly set-up.

 

[-Raynor-]

I think correct set-up of alliances is required anyway (at least for few decades of scenario time), would look odd if EU and USA would be fighting each other in 2009

I belive NATO was created to protect Western Europe from Warsaw Pact, I however don't think that vassaling it to EU would be good, since EU tends to be pacifist and that's esencially why there is NATO in this scenario. And as CEO Morgan said, USA is (or should be in mod) already powerfull without vassaled NATO. So, no vassaling NATO to anyone and just allied it to both EU and USA is IMO the best way.

I'm more interested in how many nowaday units should be in mod. Like I'm not fan of 35 nations, but I can survive it, I also don't think that giving ten types of airplanes, ten types of infantry and ten ships classes both to West and East is the best way...

 

[ianinsane]

Concerning the UK - if it would be a seperate civ: I think the most appropriate way would be to have UK and EU a permanent alliance and both having defensive pacts with USA, NATO and Canada...

 

[NwabudikeMorgan]

I think ianisane is right, that it's best to have them separate, but with defensive pacts

@-Raynor-
Well done with the CEO reference, not too many people actually get it.

 

[Ajidica]

With leadernames, that is really easy to change, all you have to do is change it in the wb file. I will be gone over the weakend, so if anyone could get the map working, that would be grate. All that needs to be done is create a mod with a 40 or 34 civ dll, and put the map in it. Niknaks, could you do this? I'll upload the map shortly, I havent put much work into this though.
I combined all of the Soth East asian countries into one civ. Stuff like vassalage, DP, and other stuff like that is really easy to do.
I view the peaceful barbarians as nation that are to busy dealing with internal problems to even consider getting involved in worl politics.
EDIT: Does anyone know where I can get a 40 or 34 civ dll? That would be very helpful.

 

[-Raynor-]

I don't know. I certainly would not play as Taiwan alone, but I can imagine playing as NATO with UK, Turkey and units-given-by-EU-and-US, or EU, or USA. I think that UK alone, just on those two island, is not playable on the world map.

I had thought - Tibet should be part of China. It's not 'peaceful barbarians' enough, it's not a shot spot state, China do have presence in Tibet...

Well, Morgan, than I guess they didn't played SMAC enough

 

[Ajidica]

To address the size question, what I think we chould do, is give the best developed cities and land to the 'most powerful' civs. Example: To keep russia from being to powerful, we will give them cities with few improvements and few land improvements.

 

[-Raynor-]

But Russia is kinda getting powerfull.
I know what you mean, but really, it's still a game for less number of civs, or states here. We could than make 150 states, and put them info alliances according how they really are. But would it be for benefit of the game? I don't think so. It's not also much helpfull during creation of the mod. UK alone is not worth playing, if compared to superpowers, like I wouldn't play as one city Czech republic or one city Taiwan, no matter how powerfull they'd be.

 

[Bahmo]

I'm more interested in how many nowaday units should be in mod. Like I'm not fan of 35 nations, but I can survive it, I also don't think that giving ten types of airplanes, ten types of infantry and ten ships classes both to West and East is the best way...

I'd say the priority land unit classes should be:
Modern Armor
AFV (New Class, default mechanized infantry, but now counts as armor, not gunpowder)
Jet Fighter
Stealth Bomber
Marine
Anti-Tank
SAM
Paratrooper
Gunship

That's nine classes, only one new. The change is simply due to my irk at the default use of the mechanized infantry. It doesn't make sense to give a vehicle infantry combat attributes, even if it functions as an anti-infantry weapon; a vehicle cannot, for example, fortify a building.

However, seeing as we're starting at 2008, it's likely a lot of futuristic tech will seep in later in the game, so eventually we might want to include other classes. I figure I want the Next War units, maybe some Final Frontier space fighters, and a Ghost class unit.

Now, one thing I think we need to replicate the global situation more accurately is an overhaul of the economics. Among the things we need:
*Diplomacy should allow leaders to exchange resources for gold-per-turn or vice-versa.
*The inflation rate-difference of countries determines how much it costs to spread a corporation in them. For example, if Country A has a bigger economy than Country B, then it is cheaper for Country A to spread its corporations in Country B, and more expensive for the reverse to occur (I know inflation exists in the game already, by the way)
*A few "industrial" corporations should be added. Cities they spread to can build goods-factories, instead of just the default branch. Goods-factories, as opposed to simply upping a city's general production, instead give their cities several occurences of resources, like the Broadway, Hollywood, and Rock & Roll wonders currently do. This is where the previous two things come in handy. You can replicate global economics by paying very little money to spread a corporation in someone else's city instead of your own, and then paying a bit for the products. Outsourcing.

 

[Ajidica]

Lets deal with that later. About 1 city civs, Czech republic isnt going to be there, same with all those other little european countries. although if someone really wanted Andorra, Luxembourg, or Liechenstien, I'm sure we could fit them in. (Last part was half joking)

 

[-Raynor-]

I know that CR wouldn't be there, that's why it was an example... I just don't think that two or three city-UK would be playable on the world map, because people are kinda used to wars with hundred(s) of units, and even though I'm lame player, I belive that is not possible with two or three city UK. Russia can develop it's dozens of cities anyway.

On the other hand, what about UK in Commonwealth of Nations?

 

[Ajidica]

I dont really know, thats what balencing is for. If you could find a 40 civ dll (I know one is out there, I have seen it), that would be very helpful.