World Builders Anonymous

[axident]

How can it depend on the number of times you do it? Surely even once is cheating?

Don't get me wrong, I personally wouldn't play every start the game gave me.... I play Marathon, Huge maps..... and I really have no interest in sitting through 40 hours of a really chronic position (like one of those 8 grassland tiles amidst 90 tundra and ice starts).

The game is meant to be fun, and in Single Player you can't really cheat, you're simply customising your game to meet your fun requirement.

Let's be fair and accept that rerolling, modifying the map etc are all abuses of the game mechanics in order to achieve more fun from the game.

While I wouldn't add resources, I can't really take the high horse when I am happy to reroll if the start position is terrible - surely that's just a more random way of achieving the same end?

Negative. WB lets you see EVERYTHING in that screen and it's hard to block out the fact that you know where that iron is hiding, or copper, or horses, or whatever. You are equating a misdemeanor with a felony just because they are both crimes. I would argue that the world is not black and white and that rerolling is way less black than WB to add resources. If you regenerate once in a while, big deal. If you regenerate over and over again for eons, that's different.

 

[Thalassicus]

I'm an extreme perfectionist, so I use it to keep from being stressed out about misclicks. I use it to correct small mistakes a few times per game, most commonly with promotions or moving a unit the wrong way. There's some promotion -- I don't remember which, flanking? - that changes it's location on the action bar when you select the first rank of it. That one's a real pain. If I click the same spot twice I end up with two different promotions, or Woodsman or something else. Rather than getting worked up about it and banging my desk with my hand in frustration (I've done that several times) I fix my error and move on.

The point of the game is to have fun, and getting stressed out over every single little tiny move and choice, so you never, ever make a single mistake and play the game 100% perfectly without human error as the perfectionist I am just raises my blood pressure.

To prevent accidental revelations while in the editor I've long been in the habit of turning off resource icons and holding my hand over the minimap before correcting a mistake, and typically squint my eyes. It works for me, and makes me happy in the long run.

 

[winddbourne]

While it obviously *is* cheating... I think there was a fair point made.... regenerating maps is also cheating, but one which is a lot easier to fool yourself into believing is legit!

What is the difference between reloading the map with the same settings and a different starting location and starting a new game with the same civilization and the same settings because you don't like the way this one is going?

Personally I consider it a loss by default every time you regenerate. Your basically saying you can't win from that location and need a new one. Losing and starting a new game is cheating? Why?

 

[azzaman333]

I have to admit it. After getting frustrate that Montezuma wouldn't sign a peace treaty I gave myself 5 nukes and blew up his capital. Take that Jaguars!

 

[mnf]

The difference between re-rolling and modifying assets is that a re-rolled map is one the map generator considers "fair", while adding resources is something on and above what the generator says is fair. In this sense, regenerating a map is just the quick way of restarting.

But there's no point arguing about this. To each his own way of having fun.

Oh that Flanking promotion is one I hate, too. Especially towards later eras where you're pumping out 10XP units and above. Although I usually just put that poor little Cavalry to border patrol duty and forget about its existence.

 

[CTH]

Sometimes when I am starting a new game with a tactic (like domination vic)in mind I look at the area around my captial in worldbuilder, to see if there is coal or oil or perhaps iron on my continent or close enough to obtain through a small war. I know it is cheating but I gets pretty angry when I play the bigger part of a game just to find out that I don't got any "late game" resources and can't go to war with horses against tanks.
So this cheating helps me to have a more fun time so I don't care about it is being cheating. It is hard enough anyway

 

[DrewBledsoe]

are you serious thats the no cheat? how long has this been there? I swear the only honest games I could play are multiplayer because of temptation lol. I sucked at multiplayer after warlords came out, warlords came otu and i got use to the.. I dont have any iron? now i do.. He built my GWall? now he didnt. stuff..

Thank god.. i can have an honest game lol. I quit the last 3 games i played because it went from harmless spawning a few explorers or building roads real quick to Creating massive Armies of rifle men while everyone else was still Bowman and mace men lol. Ofcourse I'd get screwed over the economy would go into a depression where I'd still lose money at 0 and after attacking 1civ Everyone would crawl up my arse and I wouldnt be able to produce troops to replace any that had fallen, nor defend what was taken. now all i need is the Confederacy to be made on this game and i can finally enjoy it again... lol

Yep, thats how not to cheat and its always been there.......here's what pesuaded me to use it, almost 2 yrs ago in the early days of CIV IV.....http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=151971

 

[Seras]

i used it a few times to create "perfect" starting positions for myself.....but usually i get really bored of those games within 20-30 turns....i realized i'm much better off not touching it at all, the only person im cheating is myself

 

[axident]

Sometimes when I am starting a new game with a tactic (like domination vic)in mind I look at the area around my captial in worldbuilder, to see if there is coal or oil or perhaps iron on my continent or close enough to obtain through a small war. I know it is cheating but I gets pretty angry when I play the bigger part of a game just to find out that I don't got any "late game" resources and can't go to war with horses against tanks.
So this cheating helps me to have a more fun time so I don't care about it is being cheating. It is hard enough anyway

You don't need oil. I wasn't paying attention in one game until it came time to build tanks. I hadn't noticed since I had uranium for destroyers/battleships. I beelined mech inf. This was the result--though if it were BtS and not Warlords, I'd have more mech inf. Mansa had plenty of oil. Domination Vic. Learn to roll with the map's punches--it's more fun!

 

[Silence101]

I agree - world builder can be cool to mess with sometimes when you're just messing around, but half the fun of this game is the unknown... not knowing what land is around... not knowing where resources are until you discover them, and trying to figure out how to get access to certain resources when you don't have them. Alexander's SoD just isn't as intimidating when you can just go into world build and pop in a huge military. The risk aspect is part of the fun... and you really take that element out when you use world builder. I don't have a problem with regenerating maps a hundred times over, though - that's a great feature.

 

[OTAKUjbski]

Sometimes I forget Hermitage is a National Wonder. In BtS, I keep forgetting Maoi Statues and the National Park are also National Wonders.

My only in-game use of the World Builder is to rectify planning mistakes. In these cases, I destroy the National Wonder (not move it) to make way for 'progress'.

(Personally, I think this should be a built-in option ... except maybe with a civ-wide anarchy or unhappiness penalty.)​

Otherwise, I play maps as they lie and refrain from using the World Builder or reloading.

 

[Thalassicus]

Oh that Flanking promotion is one I hate, too. Especially towards later eras where you're pumping out 10XP units and above. Although I usually just put that poor little Cavalry to border patrol duty and forget about its existence.

I'm glad I'm not the only one.

 

[Dutch Canuck]

Custom Game set-up offer ways to reduce the wild results we don't like and thus can reduce or eliminate the temptation to open the WB... My suggestions:

1) Lock Modified Assets - it's a tough pill, but remember you can reload the game from a previous autosave to "revisit history"

2) Resources, Balanced - choose this option; it's not always available depending upon map type but it's there for most maps. It ensures each civ gets one of each strategic resource within 3 - 4 tile radius from their starting location. This isn't cheating because the AI benefits as well - but it does make things easier - YMMV.

3) New Random Seed on Reload - If you do succumb to the need to reload, this feature can prevent a repeat of every AI controlled move through the repeated turns; thus one retains a bit more randomness and can enjoy new play experiences and surprises through those repeated turns too

4) Map Regeneration - as others have said, it's an option and alternative to opening the World Builder.

All-in-all may not meet many needs but hopefully it'll help reduce the WB habits!

 

[nick-brown]

I've never used World Builder - what's the point ?

N

 

[NaZdReG]

only time I use the worldbuilder is to fix stupidity in the map generator. like when you get a lake next to your settler because the river starts 1 tile away.. I don't know how that happens over and over but its stupid so I extend the river 1 tile and remove the stupid lake.

also sometimes there are random big patches of desert with no purpose, either to screw my position or 1 of the ai's. I fix it universally for everyone by turning it into plains.. but only rarely.

other than that I leave things as they are, thats the whole point of playing random maps. but sometimes the script is a little screwey and deserves to be corrected..

NaZ

 

[Tennyson]

I never use Worldbuilder. Therein lies madness.

 

[Frimlin]

I don't cheat. If I get fed up with a game, I just retire and start a new one. But mostly I just try and keep at it.

 

[MrTomothy]

I only have to use WB to delete the AP when an AI gets a hold of it, because I know it will wreck nonsensical havoc.

 

[ATopic22]

I actually never use it. Ive gone into it once but that was when i first started playing civ 4 because i thought it was like the map builder but after i realized it wasnt, there was no point in opening it. Giving myself an advantage just doesnt feel that fun.

 

[Pneumaniac227]

I've never used WB to give myself a resource or something like that...but I have used it to give myself 100 nukes when I get really bored. I almost always start a new game after that. Occasionally I stay a few turns and watch the global warming spread.