Thy_Spellcraft
King
As far as I see there seems to be no room for discussion what to do with the GE: Our variant rules clearly state we have to settle him!
World Wide Wonder
- Thread starter cripp7
- Start date
Brian Shanahan
Permanoob
Agreed can't fiddle with the rules in the middle of the game, unless mistake (genuine not accidentaly on purpose).
IPEX-731BA5DD06
Deity
We can also keep them for Mining Inc, no Guarantee that we'll be getting another Great Engineer, might be best just to hold on to it, for as long as it takes, best to have one on hand, then try to generate one.
Build more praetorians, Take that Barb City in the North East, Settle some of those Islands to the South, and start using the Great Lighthouse as it was designed.
Usual, more workers. more troops, spam great Library in Rome.
Build more praetorians, Take that Barb City in the North East, Settle some of those Islands to the South, and start using the Great Lighthouse as it was designed.
Usual, more workers. more troops, spam great Library in Rome.
ifinnem
Keep it interesting
Had a good look at the save and here are my observations
1) Looking very good overall. Can get 10 cities even w/o attacking Church and border diplo solid
We should try get a resource trade going with Hammy (maybe give him silver since he's in HR anyway and we don't need it for happy cap at the mo. Or could get WBs for clam etc)
2) Key decision of rushing Parth vs settling GE also impacts Glib timing (since Hammy will likely build that in Nippur once the Parht fails)
Here are some factors to consider
Settling the GE gets us
30 extra GS points (earlier Glib by ~5t)
~75 extra
(ditto)
4-5 extra
per turn = ~1200 over next 300 turns
7.5 extra per turn = ~2200 over next 300 turns
Rushing Parth gets us
~40-50 back (net loss of ~25) since the next settled GP will come 13 turns earlier
Quicker GPs to follow that
Denial to Hammy our biggest rival
To me it seems clear that settling is best for long term but hey this is a wonder game so I vote we try grab them all.
If we do rush the Parth its likely that Hammy will switch to building the Glib in Nippur. He could get ~16 base there so with the marble + forge bonus he only needs ~240 base or 15 turns
Given this in order to not risk losing the GLib to him I suggest
a) Wait 2 turns to rush Parth
b) Make sure we complete Glib by turn 184. This can be done by chopping the forest near Rome (but outside the BFC) for 30 base and working some heavy tiles instead of seafood closer to the time
ARe YOU GUYS GAME for this?
Tech path - need some workshops soon?
Micro input
Run eng in Antium (vs grass forest) to add scome science and also have more overflow + speed up next build
Need a few more cheap CG units to allow praets (and maybe axes) to be part of army for church. Perhaps build in Ant after settler before lib
Cumae's worker should chop out a WB for Mendo's fish and then the next worker too
Once Neap wokers have finished the banana plantation it should grow into that. Once Ravenna grows to size 5 it can take over the cottage from Neap (maybe only temporarily till other cottages are built)
Ravenna should focus on food (leave the iron mine till all riverside cottages are being worked)
Arretium could be good Levee + IW city
1) Looking very good overall. Can get 10 cities even w/o attacking Church and border diplo solid
We should try get a resource trade going with Hammy (maybe give him silver since he's in HR anyway and we don't need it for happy cap at the mo. Or could get WBs for clam etc)
2) Key decision of rushing Parth vs settling GE also impacts Glib timing (since Hammy will likely build that in Nippur once the Parht fails)
Here are some factors to consider
Settling the GE gets us
30 extra GS points (earlier Glib by ~5t)
~75 extra
(ditto)4-5 extra
per turn = ~1200 over next 300 turns7.5 extra
per turn = ~2200 over next 300 turnsRushing Parth gets us
~40-50
back (net loss of ~25) since the next settled GP will come 13 turns earlierQuicker GPs to follow that
Denial to Hammy our biggest rival
To me it seems clear that settling is best for long term but hey this is a wonder game so I vote we try grab them all.
If we do rush the Parth its likely that Hammy will switch to building the Glib in Nippur. He could get ~16 base
there so with the marble + forge bonus he only needs ~240 base or 15 turnsGiven this in order to not risk losing the GLib to him I suggest
a) Wait 2 turns to rush Parth
b) Make sure we complete Glib by turn 184. This can be done by chopping the forest near Rome (but outside the BFC) for 30 base
and working some heavy tiles instead of seafood closer to the timeARe YOU GUYS GAME for this?
Tech path - need some workshops soon?
Micro input
Run eng in Antium (vs grass forest) to add scome science and also have more overflow + speed up next build
Need a few more cheap CG units to allow praets (and maybe axes) to be part of army for church. Perhaps build in Ant after settler before lib
Cumae's worker should chop out a WB for Mendo's fish and then the next worker too
Once Neap wokers have finished the banana plantation it should grow into that. Once Ravenna grows to size 5 it can take over the cottage from Neap (maybe only temporarily till other cottages are built)
Ravenna should focus on food (leave the iron mine till all riverside cottages are being worked)
Arretium could be good Levee + IW city
cripp7
Playin' Bored
Ok, rules do state we settle all GPs so settle the GE in Rome. Mining Inc is good, but that's still a ways off. If we do pop another when we're close to it then I'd say save him for that.
Yup, that's the plan atm.
Yup, that's the plan atm.
ifinnem
Keep it interesting
OK no Parth I guess...
Are we allowed SY & Academy still?
Are we allowed SY & Academy still?
Thy_Spellcraft
King
As far as I know yes we are!
BTW: I hope to play this evening!
BTW: I hope to play this evening!
IPEX-731BA5DD06
Deity
Hey Hey, the Peeps and order of play.
Please note, this is contained on the 1st page, 1st posting.
ifinnem
Keep it interesting
cripp7
Playin' Bored
Yes SY & Academy are allowed, Thy post a ppp first if you have the time now.
Stochastic
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2009
- Messages
- 411
OK, I guess it is fairly unabmbigous about settling, I just thought there might be a conflict between the "grab as many wonders as possible" and settling a GE.
I was thinking we want to go for Civil Service to get Buro so that the extra hammers can help us build more wonders. Also chaining irrigation will be nice in the dryer corners of our realm.
Re Workshops, I think watermills will be better wherever we can squeeze them in, it will take a while before we are either running Cast or know Guilds and even then workshops aren't all that great.
I was thinking we want to go for Civil Service to get Buro so that the extra hammers can help us build more wonders. Also chaining irrigation will be nice in the dryer corners of our realm.
Re Workshops, I think watermills will be better wherever we can squeeze them in, it will take a while before we are either running Cast or know Guilds and even then workshops aren't all that great.
Thy_Spellcraft
King
Ok, you want a PPP first so you'll get you're PPP first! 
Main goals:
1. getting the barb city Vandal --> as we've got two prets already I won't build anymore of then at the moment, 'cause axes are way cheeper and as long as we don't prepare for war (I think we don't) prets would be kind of wasting hammers
2. scouting the area around the little isle while building a gallay and another settler for settling the isle and getting some nice oversea trades..
3. Finish GLib as fast as possible and try on Paya.
4. Techwise I'll finish CoL and I'd go on with maschinery, 'cause ghandi is willing to trade away construction for MC so going for maschinery would open the way to engeneering and therefore trebs.. Only prob in here would be that Cathy will give us an additional -1 for trading with WE.. :rolleyes
5. As there's another settler getting produced in Antium do we have a consensus on the settling spot for this one?
Additionally I'm going to finish the worker in Cumae and will go on with a gallay. The settler will come out of neapolis after bananas are online.
The rest will be building some infra (mainly market and courts) and as many improvements (farms mainly I think) as possible.
And the GE will get settled!
Any further comments on the set?
Main goals:
1. getting the barb city Vandal --> as we've got two prets already I won't build anymore of then at the moment, 'cause axes are way cheeper and as long as we don't prepare for war (I think we don't) prets would be kind of wasting hammers
2. scouting the area around the little isle while building a gallay and another settler for settling the isle and getting some nice oversea trades..
3. Finish GLib as fast as possible and try on Paya.
4. Techwise I'll finish CoL and I'd go on with maschinery, 'cause ghandi is willing to trade away construction for MC so going for maschinery would open the way to engeneering and therefore trebs.. Only prob in here would be that Cathy will give us an additional -1 for trading with WE.. :rolleyes
5. As there's another settler getting produced in Antium do we have a consensus on the settling spot for this one?
Additionally I'm going to finish the worker in Cumae and will go on with a gallay. The settler will come out of neapolis after bananas are online.
The rest will be building some infra (mainly market and courts) and as many improvements (farms mainly I think) as possible.
And the GE will get settled!
Any further comments on the set?
Brian Shanahan
Permanoob
Ok, you want a PPP first so you'll get you're PPP first!
Main goals:
1. getting the barb city Vandal --> as we've got two prets already I won't build anymore of then at the moment, 'cause axes are way cheeper and as long as we don't prepare for war (I think we don't) prets would be kind of wasting hammers
2. scouting the area around the little isle while building a gallay and another settler for settling the isle and getting some nice oversea trades..
3. Finish GLib as fast as possible and try on Paya.
4. Techwise I'll finish CoL and I'd go on with maschinery, 'cause ghandi is willing to trade away construction for MC so going for maschinery would open the way to engeneering and therefore trebs.. Only prob in here would be that Cathy will give us an additional -1 for trading with WE.. :rolleyes
5. As there's another settler getting produced in Antium do we have a consensus on the settling spot for this one?
Additionally I'm going to finish the worker in Cumae and will go on with a gallay. The settler will come out of neapolis after bananas are online.
The rest will be building some infra (mainly market and courts) and as many improvements (farms mainly I think) as possible.
And the GE will get settled!
Any further comments on the set?
Well the long term plan is to stomp Churchy, so some army may be advisable. Also we're at cardboard cut-out level defensively, and even though the diplo situation is pleased, I'm not convinced we'll be left alone, especially as Rome gets juicier and juicier. The plan looks good otherwise. I'm not too sure on the settle, but down south by the silver looks the best to my cold addled brain.
cripp7
Playin' Bored
sounds like a plan, getting CS then on to Eng with trades. We have a good shot at Lib.
We do need to start building up for Church pretty soon, also silver/sheep then the fish/rice.
We do need to start building up for Church pretty soon, also silver/sheep then the fish/rice.
Stochastic
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2009
- Messages
- 411
Ok, you want a PPP first so you'll get you're PPP first!
Main goals:
1. getting the barb city Vandal --> as we've got two prets already I won't build anymore of then at the moment, 'cause axes are way cheeper and as long as we don't prepare for war (I think we don't) prets would be kind of wasting hammers
2. scouting the area around the little isle while building a gallay and another settler for settling the isle and getting some nice oversea trades..
3. Finish GLib as fast as possible and try on Paya.
4. Techwise I'll finish CoL and I'd go on with maschinery, 'cause ghandi is willing to trade away construction for MC so going for maschinery would open the way to engeneering and therefore trebs.. Only prob in here would be that Cathy will give us an additional -1 for trading with WE.. :rolleyes
5. As there's another settler getting produced in Antium do we have a consensus on the settling spot for this one?
Additionally I'm going to finish the worker in Cumae and will go on with a gallay. The settler will come out of neapolis after bananas are online.
The rest will be building some infra (mainly market and courts) and as many improvements (farms mainly I think) as possible.
And the GE will get settled!
Any further comments on the set?
1) Sounds good!
2) I think our TRs with neighbors are quite good so I'm not sure that we need the over seas route as much as we might otherwise. Especially since the island is exactly that, a one tile island with minimal production. If there are multiple seafood around than it would become viable.
3) Sounds good, though we need more religion spread to make use of any civic other than FR (which we don't want right now for diplo reasons)
4)While I think the trade is the right choice, I still think that Civil service might be a better next tech so that we can a) boost all the hammers and coins from the specialists/colossus at our Cap. b) chain irrigate. Machinary would be nice though for windmills and watermills.
5) The intention was West of the pillaged barb city, but the flat silver/sheep spot could also work. Of the two silver/sheep spots I think the flatland option is a bit better as it consumes a plains and leaves hills for whatever combo of windmills and mines food allows.
6?) I don't think we need markets (except in Rome) or courthouses yet, I don't think the hammers invested will be worth it with the current low commerce and low maintenance. The hammers would probably be better placed in either wealth, units or workers.
I think a few more military units wouldn't be amiss, I'd prefer to avoid getting sucker punched by someone (eg Cathy).
Thy_Spellcraft
King
About teching CS next: I'm not that sure whether we'd really need at the moment. There is only one title (the wheat north of Rome) that would need chain irrigation, and as we don't produce that much commerce in Rome either the 50% on commerce won't pay the additional expenses for bureau.. So there's only the hammer bonus and I'm not sure whether this would excuse the additional civic upkeep.
BTW stochastic: bureau indeed increases the hammers of settled GP but as they don't produce commerce bureau wouldn't increase anything else!
In case team decides to settle the silver spot SW of Rome I'd prefer the "Moai" spot!
BTW stochastic: bureau indeed increases the hammers of settled GP but as they don't produce commerce bureau wouldn't increase anything else!
In case team decides to settle the silver spot SW of Rome I'd prefer the "Moai" spot!
ifinnem
Keep it interesting
Sounds solid
I agree CS after CoL (I'd say hammers alone are worth it and with the seafood + trade I'm sure that will basically pay for it won't it?
Also I think we need more WBs and workers before a galley in Cumae
Re settling - I think we need to settle up near Hammy to seal that off first
Reminder to check my post with micro mgmnt input..
I agree CS after CoL (I'd say hammers alone are worth it and with the seafood + trade I'm sure that will basically pay for it won't it?
Also I think we need more WBs and workers before a galley in Cumae
Re settling - I think we need to settle up near Hammy to seal that off first
Reminder to check my post with micro mgmnt input..
Thy_Spellcraft
King
IT:
Started with the purposed deal:
Decided to leave hunting out as this would obsolete cheep warriors for CG duties.. Unfortunately we got the -1 from Cathy..
Settled the GE and also made some MM as ifinnem purposed.
35BC:
Thought quite some time about this deal but finally declined it as it would help Church bit more than it would help us:
Our settler for the moai site got finished. Whiped the Lib in Antium afterwards and put the overflow into another praet.
20BC:
Arretium finished it's gran and I called a forge afterwards. Aprinum founded and started a gran here too:
5BC:
COL finished and on we go with CS. And Ghandi and asked for OB but as I'm afraid Cathy might ask to stop trading with him I declined.
10AD:
Science down to 0% to collect some money..
25AD:
We're kind of lucky: another forest grew near Rome. So that are a few more hammers for paya.
Whiped the WB in Cumae, as Churchil took our mine down there.. So the needed boats will get finished pretty fast!
40AD:
Izzy demads MC..
C'mon Izzy you should know we won't give you anything! 
55AD:
Hammi finished the Parthenon. And finally Vandal got captured and we pillaged 89 gold from it:
It too revealed additional clams so of cause I kept it! And as usual gran first.
70AD:
Finished scouting around the little island but there's only the one fish we already will get otherwise so I agree on not settling it within the next turns..
85AD:
After the second WB in Cumae I called another trireme as I wanted another defender for the seafood in rome.
And we got lucky for another time: We found silver next to rome!! :wohoo: Directly sold it to hammi for 5 gold/turn!
100AD:
We finished The Great Library! On we go with Paya.. 11 turns to go!
115AD:
As it seems a few more tried on GLib so I could grab this nice deal:
As well as this one (rather the money than nothing):
So Science back to 100%!
Finished my set at 175AD. OUr stack is gathered in Ravenna and the firts cat is getting build. So feel free to go for whom ever you want! *g*
Started with the purposed deal:
Spoiler :
Decided to leave hunting out as this would obsolete cheep warriors for CG duties.. Unfortunately we got the -1 from Cathy..
Settled the GE and also made some MM as ifinnem purposed.
35BC:
Thought quite some time about this deal but finally declined it as it would help Church bit more than it would help us:
Spoiler :
Our settler for the moai site got finished. Whiped the Lib in Antium afterwards and put the overflow into another praet.
20BC:
Arretium finished it's gran and I called a forge afterwards. Aprinum founded and started a gran here too:
Spoiler :
5BC:
COL finished and on we go with CS. And Ghandi and asked for OB but as I'm afraid Cathy might ask to stop trading with him I declined.
10AD:
Science down to 0% to collect some money..
25AD:
We're kind of lucky: another forest grew near Rome. So that are a few more hammers for paya.
Whiped the WB in Cumae, as Churchil took our mine down there.. So the needed boats will get finished pretty fast!
40AD:
Izzy demads MC..
C'mon Izzy you should know we won't give you anything! 55AD:
Hammi finished the Parthenon. And finally Vandal got captured and we pillaged 89 gold from it:
Spoiler :
It too revealed additional clams so of cause I kept it! And as usual gran first.
70AD:
Finished scouting around the little island but there's only the one fish we already will get otherwise so I agree on not settling it within the next turns..
85AD:
After the second WB in Cumae I called another trireme as I wanted another defender for the seafood in rome.
And we got lucky for another time: We found silver next to rome!! :wohoo: Directly sold it to hammi for 5 gold/turn!
100AD:
We finished The Great Library! On we go with Paya.. 11 turns to go!
115AD:
As it seems a few more tried on GLib so I could grab this nice deal:
Spoiler :
As well as this one (rather the money than nothing):
Spoiler :
So Science back to 100%!
Finished my set at 175AD. OUr stack is gathered in Ravenna and the firts cat is getting build. So feel free to go for whom ever you want! *g*
cripp7
Playin' Bored
Good deal! We need the NE after Paya and also a forum for the 
bonus.
We need to chain farm Antium get farms on the 2 forest/grass tiles.
Still need a about 3-4 more workers
bonus.We need to chain farm Antium get farms on the 2 forest/grass tiles.
Still need a about 3-4 more workers
IPEX-731BA5DD06
Deity
Had a quick look at game, no real micro manage idea's..BUT!!!!
1) Why focus all espionage on Hammurabi?? I thought we were going to own Churchhill. Seems the best fit for Conquest. Use Spies to take down city defences, he only has 4 Espoinage to spend, while Hammurabi has 20 4 more then us.
2) Court houses, if not for Maintenance saving, the Additional Espionage is helpful, we should consider running a Espionage slider against Churchhill.
3) I made a mistake about the off shore Islands, I assumed that we had the Great Lighthouse, its now only worth 2 trade routes, 6 Gold total at best. Though the bottom 3 are close to Rome, and would pay for themselves.
4) Time has come to Expand Via the Sword. Churchhill is just asking to gift us some cities, 2 Stacks, 1st to Take out York, Via a spy to drop defences, the 2nd being linked with 1st to take out London, and essentially crippling Churchhill. 2 moves, 3rd move we take York, Immediately move on London, while awaiting cultural expansion, linking up with 2nd stack, Take London, solves a lot of the Problems in the South.
5) Catherine Know's Currency, I'd sell it to Churchhill 1st, then sell it to all others for the cash alone. Better to get something then nothing, and Make a move on Churchhill after doing that.
On the War, swapping Churchhill into No State Religion, which we adopt, after building the Attack force, would remove the Friendly status that he currently has with Both Hammurabi and Catherine, they are only Pleased with us.
Wrangle some sort of Peace deal with Catherine on the Turn of War Declaration, we have 10 turns to do our damage. That should give sufficient time to take London, York, and Hastings, and move onto Warwick.
Looking at the Peace weights from the BTS Reference guilde Catherine can bribed at any status to attack, but will attack at Pleased. Hammurabi, won't declare or be bribed at pleased. Catherine is far enough away that she could be enticed to join in a war against Churchhill, if we move him to No state Religion, as we don't have any other religion to move him too.
Scout out that City of Hammurabi, to the NE of Churchhill, if only for the Additional trade routes from knowing a city.
1) Why focus all espionage on Hammurabi?? I thought we were going to own Churchhill. Seems the best fit for Conquest. Use Spies to take down city defences, he only has 4 Espoinage to spend, while Hammurabi has 20 4 more then us.
2) Court houses, if not for Maintenance saving, the Additional Espionage is helpful, we should consider running a Espionage slider against Churchhill.
3) I made a mistake about the off shore Islands, I assumed that we had the Great Lighthouse, its now only worth 2 trade routes, 6 Gold total at best. Though the bottom 3 are close to Rome, and would pay for themselves.
4) Time has come to Expand Via the Sword. Churchhill is just asking to gift us some cities, 2 Stacks, 1st to Take out York, Via a spy to drop defences, the 2nd being linked with 1st to take out London, and essentially crippling Churchhill. 2 moves, 3rd move we take York, Immediately move on London, while awaiting cultural expansion, linking up with 2nd stack, Take London, solves a lot of the Problems in the South.
5) Catherine Know's Currency, I'd sell it to Churchhill 1st, then sell it to all others for the cash alone. Better to get something then nothing, and Make a move on Churchhill after doing that.
On the War, swapping Churchhill into No State Religion, which we adopt, after building the Attack force, would remove the Friendly status that he currently has with Both Hammurabi and Catherine, they are only Pleased with us.
Wrangle some sort of Peace deal with Catherine on the Turn of War Declaration, we have 10 turns to do our damage. That should give sufficient time to take London, York, and Hastings, and move onto Warwick.
Looking at the Peace weights from the BTS Reference guilde Catherine can bribed at any status to attack, but will attack at Pleased. Hammurabi, won't declare or be bribed at pleased. Catherine is far enough away that she could be enticed to join in a war against Churchhill, if we move him to No state Religion, as we don't have any other religion to move him too.
Scout out that City of Hammurabi, to the NE of Churchhill, if only for the Additional trade routes from knowing a city.
