Worst military commander-who is the worst general?
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privatehudson
The Ultimate Badass
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I understand that Blucher and the King were also on the field too.
Winfred Scott was a brilliant commander. Even if his role in the Civil War is not immense due to his age, his performance earlier, such as the landing at Veracruz, was evident of skill as a tactician. He shouldn't even be mentioned in this thread.
Who was the Italian in charge of marching over the Izorno River over and over again in WW1? Was repulsed over a dozen times? He might deserve a place in this discussion.
Who was the Italian in charge of marching over the Izorno River over and over again in WW1? Was repulsed over a dozen times? He might deserve a place in this discussion.
Adler17
Prussian Feldmarschall
The Italian plan to break through the lines and take Salzburg and threaten Munich and Vienna was perfect. But as Moltke said: No plan survives contact with the enemy. And most of them were Austrian farmers who fought until death in the Alps. They knew the conditions and their bravery stopped the Italians. At the Isonzo however the Italians tried it again and again until they were attacked and had to retreat.
Adler
Adler
privatehudson
The Ultimate Badass
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I only did so to refute someone who commented that every head union commander should have been included. Perhaps they meant men like Hooker and Burnside, but they were only commanders of the Army of the Potomac, and not the whole union army, although the distinction is often missed by some.
All right, I was reading it quickly and maybe misunderstood who was posting what argument. Consider my statement as a bolster to yours, then.
EconomistBR
King
Soviet General Dmitry Pavlov, he was horrible that he was executed.
He contradicted Soviet General Zhukov in 1941, he is responsible in part for the disaster of 1941
He contradicted Soviet General Zhukov in 1941, he is responsible in part for the disaster of 1941
He was exonirated later tough. Mostly made a scapegoat by Stalin to have someoen to blame.
He totally wasted the opportunity his surprise attack (which was basically an overwhelming numbers charge) gave by allowing the pocket to maintain and letting the Americans land and retake Seoul. He was so bad that he was essentially exiled until the conclusion of the war and his replacement had less than good things to say about him.
Given that the UN had complete naval superiority, almost total air superiority, and was holding a fairly contracted line around Pusan, Kim's failure - if it was his, and one doesn't lay it at Choi Yong-kun's feet - was simply another case of being overstretched. Going by that logic, Napoleon was the worst general in the world too, as were the Germans in OKH.
The NKPA's failure to maintain a sizable reserve is inexcusable, but hardly a cause for calling them the worst led army in the world.LOLZ
Chieftain
Kim Il Sung can't be any worse than Kim Jong-il
sydhe
King of Kongs
Elphinstone's my favorite disaster.
Then there's Charles Vere Ferrers Townshend who invaded Mesopotamia during World War I, succeeded in taking Kut, got beat by the Turks at Ctesiphon, got surrounded at Kut and eventually had to surrender his entire force. After the surrender he got to live in comfort near Constantinople while his men suffered in captivity. His superior, John Nixon, may have been even worse.
And I've read somewhere that what you need for a Battle of Cannae is a Hannibal on one side and Gaius Terentius Varro on the other.
Then there's Charles Vere Ferrers Townshend who invaded Mesopotamia during World War I, succeeded in taking Kut, got beat by the Turks at Ctesiphon, got surrounded at Kut and eventually had to surrender his entire force. After the surrender he got to live in comfort near Constantinople while his men suffered in captivity. His superior, John Nixon, may have been even worse.
And I've read somewhere that what you need for a Battle of Cannae is a Hannibal on one side and Gaius Terentius Varro on the other.
Verbose
Deity
That would be Luigi Cadorna, and his eleven battles of Isonzo. Mind you. given the limited theatre of operations he probably couldn't avoid the Isonzo river anyway.
Yeah, it's not like there was anywhere else to fight but the Isonzo. The only part of the Italian-Austrian border that wasn't pure alp.
EconomistBR
King
No, you are mistaken. Dmitry Pavlov was the worst general of the USSR.
From Wikipedia:"In particular he insisted that tanks be shifted to infantry support roles, which in hindsight turned out to be incorrect."
Zhukov disagreed with him on this, Zhukov wanted to have tanks separated from infantry to be used as spearheads, but Pavlov...
Sofista
Deity
Here's a good overview of the Isonzo battles: http://www.worldwar1.com/itafront/isonzo11.htm
Adler: where were Austrian farmers to be found not wearing uniforms around the Isonzo?
Adler: where were Austrian farmers to be found not wearing uniforms around the Isonzo?
Adler17
Prussian Feldmarschall
Thanks for the link, but I meant more the war in the Alps and not Isonzo as example.
Adler
Adler
Probably not the worst, but all of Stalin's military decisions were catastrophic. When the german wave was flooding Russia he was obsessed with the idea of cutting their supply lines with cavalry, à la 19th Century. They did in fact attempt that, in one occasion, with predictable results. The war only begun going the right way for the soviets when Stalin finally realized that he was no general.
neutrino
Warlord
Though I think Pavlov merely reflected the disarray of the Red Army at that time. Too many holes to plug after the purge, resulting in too many inexperienced officers given higher-level commands. Even if Pavlov were 200% more gifted than historically, he would still have become creamed by the Germans and shot by Stalin. The problem was much greater than Pavlov; what about subordinate units commanded by even more inexperienced officers?
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