Worst UU

[babar]

The panzer is invariably completely useless. It's as ridiculous as a spearman that gets a bonus vs spearmen, or a catapult that gets a bonus when attacking catapults. And it comes so late. The panzer is the benchmark. Any worse UU has to be worse than the base unit it replaces.

The ballista elephant and the navy seal (mainly because it is late, and based on a peripheral unit) are almost completely useless.

There are a few possible candidates for being an actual downgrade: dog soldier, jaguar, numidian cavalry (all reduced strength), the samurai (needs iron), ballista elephant again (you might not want to target the mounted unit) and, really stretching it, the keshik (doesn't ignore first strikes innately). The only real candidates here are the dog soldier (can't axe rush), and the numidian cavalry (weaker against archers and horses).

For me, it's between the panzer, ballista elephant and numidian cav, but I think I've listed all the units that could conceivably be considered.

 

[Shoes]

There are a few possible candidates for being an actual downgrade: dog soldier, jaguar, numidian cavalry (all reduced strength), the samurai (needs iron), ballista elephant again (you might not want to target the mounted unit) and, really stretching it, the keshik (doesn't ignore first strikes innately). The only real candidates here are the dog soldier (can't axe rush), and the numidian cavalry (weaker against archers and horses).

I am sorry, but AFAIK maceman needs iron aswell?

 

[babar]

I am sorry, but AFAIK maceman needs iron aswell?

Or copper.

 

[Ataxerxes]

The panzer is invariably completely useless. It's as ridiculous as a spearman that gets a bonus vs spearmen, or a catapult that gets a bonus when attacking catapults. And it comes so late. The panzer is the benchmark. Any worse UU has to be worse than the base unit it replaces.

The ballista elephant and the navy seal (mainly because it is late, and based on a peripheral unit) are almost completely useless.

There are a few possible candidates for being an actual downgrade: dog soldier, jaguar, numidian cavalry (all reduced strength), the samurai (needs iron), ballista elephant again (you might not want to target the mounted unit) and, really stretching it, the keshik (doesn't ignore first strikes innately). The only real candidates here are the dog soldier (can't axe rush), and the numidian cavalry (weaker against archers and horses).

For me, it's between the panzer, ballista elephant and numidian cav, but I think I've listed all the units that could conceivably be considered.

Samurai is a fairly good UU. Iron is more common than copper and I'm rarely without it by the time Samurai is available. Only problem is it's attached to Toku. MIght be good with unrestricted leaders (Boudica or Hammy of Japan?).

Ballista Elephant is way down there, but I dislike Panzer and Marine more. They've never mattered in any game of BTS I've played. Numidian Cavalry and Keshik aren't that bad. Admittedly, Numidian seems even better because it's attached to Hannibal.

 

[babar]

Samurai is a fairly good UU. Iron is more common than copper and I'm rarely without it by the time Samurai is available. Only problem is it's attached to Toku. MIght be good with unrestricted leaders (Boudica or Hammy of Japan?).

Ballista Elephant is way down there, but I dislike Panzer and Marine more. They've never mattered in any game of BTS I've played. Numidian Cavalry and Keshik aren't that bad. Admittedly, Numidian seems even better because it's attached to Hannibal.

Keshiks are probably my favorite UU, and samurai are very tough, although I don't end up using them much. I was really just listing UUs that could conceivably be worse than irrelevant and included the above for fairness sake (forgot the cataphract though - same "weakness" as the keshik). I thought it was pretty pointless to include them, but you never know. Maybe someone has stats on why their apparently small flaws are bigger than they seem. I have actually been unable to build samurai despite having copper in the past, which was very annoying.

 

[awesome]

holkans are a resourceless unit that don't take a hit to their strength like jaguars and dog soldiers and they get immunity to first strikes if you ever need that, like against keshiks. pretty decent.

 

[Skallagrimson]

The only UUs I really "like" are Immortals (archer bonus), Numidians (melee bonus), and Berserkers and Samurai for obvious reasons. The rest are just junk: late game (SEALs), tiny worthless bonus (War Chariots), rare resource-driven (I'm talking to you Ballista Elephants), or obsolete the one to two turns after they open up (Jannissary WHO? Oh, the unit that was obsolete right after I could build 1 of 'em...)

I'm kind of fickle about the naval UUs. Carracks and East Indiamen are the bomb on island/coastal maps and sukkass on pangea, for example.

 

[Ataxerxes]

The only UUs I really "like" are Immortals (archer bonus), Numidians (melee bonus), and Berserkers and Samurai for obvious reasons. The rest are just junk: late game (SEALs), tiny worthless bonus (War Chariots), rare resource-driven (I'm talking to you Ballista Elephants), or obsolete the one to two turns after they open up (Jannissary WHO? Oh, the unit that was obsolete right after I could build 1 of 'em...)

I'm kind of fickle about the naval UUs. Carracks and East Indiamen are the bomb on island/coastal maps and sukkass on pangea, for example.

Seriously, you find the War Chariot junk?!? I think I'd take it over the UU's mentioned. The "rest" includes Prats, Redcoats, Oromos, Skirmishers, Fast Worker, etc. All of them rival Berserket and Samurai. If you play Normal Speed Fast Worker may be the best of them all.

Naval units are situational, it's true.

 

[Iranon]

I agree with Ataxerxes here. War Chariots usually do better than Immortals against archers in cities, archers outside cities aren't relevant from my experience, and against anything else War Chariots are much stronger.
Numidian Cavalry, Berserkers and Samurai wouldn't even be in my top 50%.

 

[Skallagrimson]

War Chariot's like an axemen that can be ganked by a spear. We need to multiplayer sometime...

 

[Iranon]

It's also faster, cheaper, has a withdrawal chance, can't be ganked by chariots and ganks axes.

But the real point was: Why like Immortals very much and War Chariots not at all? Archers get so many defensive bonuses that a higher base strength is as least as useful against them as a +50% bonus.
Immortals can be noticably ahead - flatland cities with no defense from walls or culture, both at 0 promotions or C1 against CG1.
That's quite narrow though. Any of hills, Protective archers, culture, city walls or even just unequal promotions? War Chariots will do better.

 

[Skallagrimson]

4 + 50% = 6
5 + 0 = 5

6 > 5

 

[Kid R]

4 + 50% = 6
5 + 0 = 5

6 > 5

I used to think that but somebody put me right with an example using Numidian Cavalry, in the "other" worst UU thread that was running alongside this one for a while (this thread seems to have won )

Against typical archers (say +100% defense) our immortals will actually be fighting at 4 vs 4.5, not 6 vs 6, because of the kooky way the game takes "our" 50% off the defender's bonus rather than giving it to us. (All +N% bonuses on both sides are added up and whoever has the most just gets the difference.)

So war chariots at 5 vs 6 and no first strike worries are just as good. And very often archers will have more than +100% too, further hurting the immortals.

 

[Ataxerxes]

War Chariot's like an axemen that can be ganked by a spear. We need to multiplayer sometime...

True. One question - ever see what Spearmen do to Immortals? It isn't pretty if they're your Immortals. If I'm rushing with either WC or Immortals, I try to get there before spears. I have a soft spot for Numidian Cavalry, but I wouldn't put them near the top either. Spears are slightly better head to head (unless on good terrain, then the Numidian's in trouble).

Only advantage Immortals have for me is defensive bonuses.

 

[Mosher]

For me? The cataphract. The 2 str bonus is nice, but I almost never build knights and if I do, they go obsolete too fast to be of much use.

In general, I'd say the ballista elephant. It's too situational and the resource it requires is too rare.

 

[gilmore606]

me like dog soldier him save my ass a couple times when me not have copper nearby

 

[Civ'ed]

For me? The cataphract. The 2 str bonus is nice, but I almost never build knights and if I do, they go obsolete too fast to be of much use.

In general, I'd say the ballista elephant. It's too situational and the resource it requires is too rare.

I agree with the Cataphract idea. I only ever use them when I'm on BtS 1000 AD, and then I only use them on minor skirmishes such as Barbarian cities or Minor Arabian cities early on. Nice bonus, but when the AI churns out the longbows you can just as well give up and get a huge bonus with something else.

 

[Kid R]

The knight UUs are good for the AIs anyway even if we don't like them.

 

[GT_OKEZ]

I would go with the Ballista Elephant. Its penalties don't make it a very good UU at all. The Navy Seal I find kinda lacking as well. Seriously , I think they should have given all Civs some early game UUs.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

4 + 50% = 6
5 + 0 = 5

6 > 5

Nice arithmetic.

Now do a model with how civ IV combat actually works, and you'll see that for every practical rush scenario in existence, the VAST MAJORITY of the enemy archers will do better against immortals than war chariots.

Hint: bonuses are applied to the defender.

Then recall that war chariots are immune to first strikes, and all archers have at least 1.

War chariots are objectively superior as a rush unit if you're looking at the unit alone, and one of the very best in the game.

I'm also a bit disappointed in obsolete not realizing that a marine is frequently superior attacking amphibiously to a tank, esp before 10 xp (they defend better once they take it, too). SEALS with march + first strikes are a much bigger step up than what the panzer offers.

All of the non-resource UUs are barb-defense guys at LEAST, except jaguars since IW is a bit late for anti-barb (but jags have other good uses).

The only realistic "worst" candidates are Panzer/ballista elephant. Even the miserable HRE landcrap has some applications in a defensive role; the panzer is VERY late with what is very close to no functional benefit, while the ballista elephant isn't even consistently available and you may or may not want its effects, which are pretty much solely defensive anyway.