Blahblahman123
Chieftain
I guess (well atleast for me Landshnekt or whatever it`s pronaunced) So what is the worst UU in your opinion?
Worst UU
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Ghpstage
Deity
This thread is the natural environment of the Ballista Elephant! 
Why's that? Do you think it comes too late in the game?
I'm a new Civ IV player so I haven't had that much experience with the units yet, but personally I haven't bothered using the Korean Hwacha that much.
I've read that people don't like the French musketeers that much because their short time of use, but in my games usually I've had time to use them.
Jarlaxe Baenre
Emperor
The Panzer comes too late and is not much of an improvement over the tank, and it obsoletes quickly.
Hwacha will tear apart enemy stacks in the field better than a regular catapult because of its bonus against melee. Its situational, which is what seperates any good UU from the ones considered bad. Landsnecht is an excellent stack defender and I have had some pretty good results using it [offesively] against AI counter assault stacks.
Musketeer is probably the worst musket based UU, which are disfavored because thier usable life is so short and they aren't as good at city defense as longbows (mostly). Epic and Marathon speed help increase musket UU's utility significantly though. I like Epic. I think most people agree that Oromos and Janissaries are far better.
My opinion is the ballista elephant is the worst UU because of two factors:
1. Its use where it is better than War Elephants is highly situational as the AI must have and field mounted units.
2. It requires Ivory which is probably least occuring resources for most empires. Not sure if the map script dictates that it be in tropical zones, but it seems as though its almost always found near the equator. So if you are Sury and you start in the temperate zones, tough luck!
Higher Game
National Socialist
Dog soldier, duh. It's WORSE than the normal unit. 
Farm Boy
I hope you dance
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More the problem with the panzer is that like the ballista elephant and the lanksckthingy the improvement is situational. Tank attacking defending AI tank isn't actually a terribly common matchup with the AI, it happens...some. Generally you would win that matchup anyways, due to lack of defensive bonuses on tanks. Add into that the fact that the unit is very late and you have a real winner of a UU.
Dog soldiers are debateable, but yes, there are good arguments for it being weaker than the standard axeman.
The UU I most often find useless is the conquistador. It has a bonus against things that it was already going to win against(and not even longbows for that matter) and by a bigger tech discrepancy than the Janissary. It actually really frustrated me until I learned here that the real Spanish UU is CR III cannons off the production line in every city. Those things unlock the Heroic Epic in their natural state. Also, just to boot, they synergize poorly with conquistadors. Really the conquistadors are like a trap. If you want to use their bonus then you have to beeline them, which temps you away from a much more frequently powerful steel beeline for uberdupersuper-mega cannons.
Dog soldiers are debateable, but yes, there are good arguments for it being weaker than the standard axeman.
The UU I most often find useless is the conquistador. It has a bonus against things that it was already going to win against(and not even longbows for that matter) and by a bigger tech discrepancy than the Janissary. It actually really frustrated me until I learned here that the real Spanish UU is CR III cannons off the production line in every city. Those things unlock the Heroic Epic in their natural state. Also, just to boot, they synergize poorly with conquistadors. Really the conquistadors are like a trap. If you want to use their bonus then you have to beeline them, which temps you away from a much more frequently powerful steel beeline for uberdupersuper-mega cannons.
Jarlaxe Baenre
Emperor
I say Jaguar. It's only good when no one near you has copper/iron, which is rare unless you're playing an Earth map.
It can't beat the unit it's based off of and it's weaker doing the very task the unit it's based off of is supposed to do.
It can't beat the unit it's based off of and it's weaker doing the very task the unit it's based off of is supposed to do.
Hard to distinguish between so many good candidates. Although the Ballista Elephant isn't stellar by any means, it isn't totally useless, just nearly so.
I have about 6 to choose from. Dog Soldier, Jaguar. Often poorer than what they replace.
Navy SEAL, Panzer. Very late. By the time you can build SEALs you can build tanks for, what, 10 hammers more. I'll take tanks. Maybe on Deity Panzer gives you an edge, I don't know.
Conquistador - I go for Rifling quickly, so I've never built one. Spain's UU is it's seige weapons.
I'll vote for the Dog Soldier. Easily countered by Chariots. Chariots are the counter to axes anyway, so they shred weaker axes. And the AI likes mounted units.
I have about 6 to choose from. Dog Soldier, Jaguar. Often poorer than what they replace.
Navy SEAL, Panzer. Very late. By the time you can build SEALs you can build tanks for, what, 10 hammers more. I'll take tanks. Maybe on Deity Panzer gives you an edge, I don't know.
Conquistador - I go for Rifling quickly, so I've never built one. Spain's UU is it's seige weapons.
I'll vote for the Dog Soldier. Easily countered by Chariots. Chariots are the counter to axes anyway, so they shred weaker axes. And the AI likes mounted units.
Jarlaxe Baenre
Emperor
Ah, but the dog soldier excels at what it is meant to do. Jaguar, Navy SEAL, Panzer and Conquistador either don't do what they are meant to do, are redundant, or get obsolete too fast.
The7Sins
Hungry Burger
I'd say the worst is either the Musketeer for being obsolete to quickly while not having any major difference from the standard Musketman or the Panzer or SEAL for coming way to late in the game to be much of a use.
revengeofmakno
Eclectic Enigma
No one seems to have mentioned the Numidians who are in that class of units that might-not-be-better-than-the-original-and-might-be-worse. However, I have to think that the Panzer and the SEAL are the worst because of how late they are. Has anyone, at any time, ever won a game, or even taken a big step forward specifically because of them?
Dog Soldiers - the only unique unit I usually consider worse than the vanilla version. Diminished rush potential, and needing iron for a decent generalist rather than iron or copper actually increases resource dependence.
Jaguars get a cost cut, a persistent promotion that makes them excellent healers and are quite good at blindsiding the AI - I usually consider them an asset. Conquistadors can be used to great effect and their ability to defend well is often overlooked... but yes, spain may get more from a cannon beeline.
Jaguars get a cost cut, a persistent promotion that makes them excellent healers and are quite good at blindsiding the AI - I usually consider them an asset. Conquistadors can be used to great effect and their ability to defend well is often overlooked... but yes, spain may get more from a cannon beeline.
s.bernbaum
Mostly lurking
I can't say that they were any more help than the basic marine or tank but the late game is where I usually get involved in a war. I like to play long games with lots of diplomacy, so I most commonly go for peaceful victories but when I do decide to play for a domination win, I still wait until the modern era most of the time. So, a UU being late in the game is good from my point of view.
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Dog Soldiers are underrated for a defensive SB approach. They may not make good rushers but they are great anti-rush and anti-barb combined with the other SB bonuses. I think it makes SB strong on higher levels when the early game is so rough.
I'm not fond of the Numidians since I'm not a big Horse Archer guy, although Keshiks due rule. The free flanking promo and melee bonus does make up for the lack of strength if you can get them up soon enough.
Landschekts are crapola simply as there bonus provides no singular benefit that other units would not handle more effectively. You would build them as you would pikes, but I would use Mace as anti-melee support. They are decent in defense but the melee bonus doesn't make them really any more effective against other melee except maybe pikes.
I'm not fond of the Numidians since I'm not a big Horse Archer guy, although Keshiks due rule. The free flanking promo and melee bonus does make up for the lack of strength if you can get them up soon enough.
Landschekts are crapola simply as there bonus provides no singular benefit that other units would not handle more effectively. You would build them as you would pikes, but I would use Mace as anti-melee support. They are decent in defense but the melee bonus doesn't make them really any more effective against other melee except maybe pikes.
vicawoo
Chieftain
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Musketeers have a lot of potential. If people sat down and worked out the AI movement patterns, balllista elephants have much as well (need a forward stack to meet horse archers, protects catapults). Or at worst case, just great general it and hope your one unit has a big impact, kind of like jaguars.
Dog soldiers are very useful anti-barbarian, though no axe rushes is kind of sad.
No comment on modern era.
HRE, you can throw some axemen/macemen to weaken the land..., which will stupidly defend in many cases. Your cuirassiers/cavalry will thank you.
Dog soldiers are very useful anti-barbarian, though no axe rushes is kind of sad.
No comment on modern era.
HRE, you can throw some axemen/macemen to weaken the land..., which will stupidly defend in many cases. Your cuirassiers/cavalry will thank you.
awesome
Meme Lord
i play mostly future era advanced starts and rhye's and fall on my single player games, so, yes, i have gotten a lot of use out of seals and they're pretty great. i think ballista elephants are the worst, but that's more because i don't really use elephants than anything else.
username804
I am a meat popcycle
Hey Hold on!
All you have to do is tweak things in the XML
make the units stronger or weaker as you see fit. You dont have to use what Firaxis gave you.
You want SEALs in the Iron Age? just do it. You want dog soldiers with str 50? just do it. That's what the xml is for.
Unless you're playing Germany or America, they wont last, all the other Civs will kill them, especially Russia. The AI loves its horse units.
The UUs are just meant to represent something from history, they're not meant to be hunter-killer terminators, but you can make them so with the XML.
I love both Rome and America, the real Empires. I love Augustus, the real one. I like Justinian and Charlemagne, but I'll never play their empires. I've had CIV4 for years and I've tried all civs and all combinations of leaders, including using Boudica as Hitler for Germany(Agg + Charming).
It's just a game! You dont like something, fix it!
All you have to do is tweak things in the XML
make the units stronger or weaker as you see fit. You dont have to use what Firaxis gave you.
You want SEALs in the Iron Age? just do it. You want dog soldiers with str 50? just do it. That's what the xml is for.
Unless you're playing Germany or America, they wont last, all the other Civs will kill them, especially Russia. The AI loves its horse units.
The UUs are just meant to represent something from history, they're not meant to be hunter-killer terminators, but you can make them so with the XML.
I love both Rome and America, the real Empires. I love Augustus, the real one. I like Justinian and Charlemagne, but I'll never play their empires. I've had CIV4 for years and I've tried all civs and all combinations of leaders, including using Boudica as Hitler for Germany(Agg + Charming).
It's just a game! You dont like something, fix it!
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