Would an end to anonymous posting improve social media?

Would ending Anonymous posting improve social media?


  • Total voters
    43
It's funny because the "no" vote doesn't accurately reflect the reasoning. The reasons for "no" range from "this could further harm marginalised people" all the way to "i don't want people to associate my opinions with me as a person". Hmm.
What if there are people being marginalised because of their opinions? People are voting "far" right parties in secret. I announced my intention of vote to my group of friends, people I know since childhood and got myself into a real mess...and I got out of if because after the vote no longer did I expressed my opinion nor do I follow politics as keenly as I did.
 
Do you mean that neither of the ends of your spectrum could accurately be described as actually "Harming social media" but other results that do not directly affect social media?

If that is what you mean, we could talk about Parler, 'cos it really did not help them.
Depends how philosophical you want to get. I'd argue that social media only exists because of its users, and that therefore harming users in turn harms the social media platform in question. Assuming that "harming users" falls under your "results that do not directly affect social media".

What if there are people being marginalised because of their opinions? People are voting "far" right parties in secret. I announced my intention of vote to my group of friends, people I know since childhood and got myself into a real mess...and I got out of if because after the vote no longer did I expressed my opinion nor do I follow politics as keenly as I did.
"people hate me because I've chosen specific beliefs" isn't the same as "people hate me for being born with a colour of skin that I cannot help nor change". Isn't the same, never will be the same, not my problem nor indeed on me to explain further.
 
Of course it's not the same! Just as words are not as violent as a bat! But did you give a definition when you used the word? Do you deny that people have been marginalised throughout human history because of their views?
 
Depends how philosophical you want to get. I'd argue that social media only exists because of its users, and that therefore harming users in turn harms the social media platform in question. Assuming that "harming users" falls under your "results that do not directly affect social media".
Then I still do not get what you are saying. Both the examples you give are harming the user who is identified.
 
Then I still do not get what you are saying. Both the examples you give are harming the user who is identified.
Reductively, yes. But it's kinda like saying "I'm in proximity to a knife" when the difference is in who is holding the knife. Choices having consequences is an inherently different thing to being ostracised for something that is out of your control.
 
Reductively, yes. But it's kinda like saying "I'm in proximity to a knife" when the difference is in who is holding the knife. Choices having consequences is an inherently different thing to being ostracised for something that is out of your control.
So you where saying the two ends of the spectrum are different? I totally did not get that, I am sure it is my reading comprehension.

Consequences for things you are is worse than consequences for things you say, but both are worth avoiding at least on an individual level.
 
So you where saying the two ends of the spectrum are different? I totally did not get that, I am sure it is my reading comprehension.

Consequences for things you are is worse than consequences for things you say, but both are worth avoiding at least on an individual level.
Possibly. I ascribe to learning from consequences for things you say. Either the criticism is apt, and you can incorporate that into self-improvement, or the criticism is off, but you need to be exposed to it to learn that difference. There is a mental cost, I guess. You have to have the headspace for that kind of interaction, and as much as I argue online, there are days that I don't have it in me.

Whereas criticism born of someone disliking an aspect of you you can't change is fundamentally useless to you. You can't act on it, even if you wanted to.
 
Possibly. I ascribe to learning from consequences for things you say. Either the criticism is apt, and you can incorporate that into self-improvement, or the criticism is off, but you need to be exposed to it to learn that difference. There is a mental cost, I guess. You have to have the headspace for that kind of interaction, and as much as I argue online, there are days that I don't have it in me.

Whereas criticism born of someone disliking an aspect of you you can't change is fundamentally useless to you. You can't act on it, even if you wanted to.
We are talking about people having to provide their real identities, and therefore their physical location. We are not talking about criticism, you can give that all you want online with anonymity. I am principally talking about avoiding legal actions and illegal violence.
 
Whereas criticism born of someone irrationally disliking an aspect of you you can't change is fundamentally useless to you. You can't act on it, even if you wanted to.

The goalposts of rationality are ever changing. I view TERF is a nu-dirty word created to disturb people that are very rational but must now refrain from public discourse.
 
The goalposts of rationality are ever changing. I view TERF is a nu-dirty word created to disturb people that are very rational but must now refrain from public discourse.

What do you actually want though?

Do you want so-called TERFs to be free from criticism by legislation, or what?

Edit: I suppose I'm asking: Are they getting their speech suppressed or are they just getting criticised?
 
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We are talking about people having to provide their real identities, and therefore their physical location. We are not talking about criticism, you can give that all you want online with anonymity. I am principally talking about avoiding legal actions and illegal violence.
You can see from at least one in-thread poster that they treat criticism the same as an actual physical threat.

The legal aspect is another thing, and one that predominantly targets people who make the criticism that Ordnael is objecting to (vs. Ordnael being at risk because his criticism could theoretically be attached to his RL name).

I'm trying to show that there is a very real difference between the posters voting "no" and their rationale for doing so, because some people want impunity, and others simply want to live (without being punished for it).
 
The goalposts of rationality are ever changing. I view TERF is a nu-dirty word created to disturb people that are very rational but must now refrain from public discourse.

Who would have guessed that the person who thinks trans people are turning kids trans (a rehash of homophobic rhetoric) openly supports a group that wants people like me to stop existing.
 
What do you actually want though?

Do you want so-called TERFs to be free from criticism by legislation, or what?

Edit: I suppose I'm asking: Are they getting their speech suppressed or are they just getting criticised?

Bigots don't like to be the subject of criticism, they just want to spread and incite hate, cry bullying weirdos who can't stand even a fifth of what they give
 
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You can see from at least one in-thread poster that they treat criticism the same as an actual physical threat.
Read the posts (#92 and #93) above and see who treats criticism as a physical threat, nay, an existential one.

The legal aspect is another thing, and one that predominantly targets people who make the criticism that Ordnael is objecting to (vs. Ordnael being at risk because his criticism could theoretically be attached to his RL name).
Legal aspect!? You think it's OK to prosecute people for their opinions even if they are not inciting violence!?

I'm trying to show that there is a very real difference between the posters voting "no" and their rationale for doing so, because some people want impunity, and others simply want to live (without being punished for it)
You think I want impunity!? No! I just don't want to cancelled from participating in public discourse. You can criticize me all you, in fact I invite to it. Maybe I can learn from it, or at least learn more about your stance. Cancelling leads nowhere but resentment.

You're trying to pass a very horrid image of me. But you're free to do it.
 
You're trying to pass a very horrid image of me. But you're free to do it.

Everything you've posted about trans people makes it clear to me that you have more in common with those oppressing us than trans people and everytime you're given an option you double down.

It's not us that make you look bad, it's you.
 
You think I want impunity!? No! I just don't want to cancelled from participating in public discourse. You can criticize me all you, in fact I invite to it. Maybe I can learn from it, or at least learn more about your stance. Cancelling leads nowhere but resentment.

Ok, but what would this involve? What are the effects of cancelling that are bad/unacceptable/harmful and how do you prevent them?
 
Legal aspect!? You think it's OK to prosecute people for their opinions even if they are not inciting violence!?
Regardless of my personal opinion, not being a lawyer or versed in law, that isn't what I said, no.
You think I want impunity!? No! I just don't want to cancelled from participating in public discourse. You can criticize me all you, in fact I invite to it. Maybe I can learn from it, or at least learn more about your stance. Cancelling leads nowhere but resentment.
I don't really care enough about your definition of "cancelled", as this isn't the thread for it, nor do I care about the extent to which you think I'm passing a "horrid" image of you. If you want to call it "I don't want to be cancelled for my opinions", call it that.

My point is that you having an opinion, and people reacting (negatively) to that, is different to people existing in a specific way, and people reacting (negatively) to that. You choose your opinions.
 
Literally forcing everyone to be doxed so as to post - what a great hideous idea.
There are obvious reasons why anonymity in forums should be the user's choice, including risk of violence, work-safety, privacy.

This is why so many people are still using pseudonyms on the CBC comment pages, even after the "real names policy" came in. I do not need certain RL paper pushers here knowing my real political opinions or how I express them.

"it would kill social media" Would that be a bad thing?
Social media used to be the editorial page of the local paper. I remember a time when one person wrote to the editor expressing a negative view of religion and churches. Someone else wrote a rebuttal. Then the first guy wrote a counter-rebuttal.

Then the editor realized that people were interested in this back-and-forth, and dedicated a portion of the editorial page to these two. The debate went on for awhile until something else got popular.

Forced doxxing doesn't seem like a good idea.

Also, they tried this in the CBC comments and most of the posts are still utter trash.
That "real names" policy was so annoying. I already had over 10k posts under my original username there, and after having to re-register under a different name, I no longer have access to those posts.

And if they think I'm using my real name there now, they're dreaming. My username there is a character from one of my favorite novels (not a well-known one, so I rather doubt the average person could figure out which one it is).

At the time I registered my new account, there did seem to be some vetting. Not much, but some. It took awhile for mine to be accepted, though I did try to pick one that could plausibly be a real name. But not long after that, they must have given up on vetting them, considering how many Star Trek characters, Archie comics characters, and a dead Prime Minister started popping up in the comments section.

I guess my username there seems a little too non-"Old Stock Canadian" for some people and there have been a few times when some right-wing twit has snarked at me to "go back to your country". I just tell them I'm already in my country, thanks, and can't get any more "back" than I am already.

This is what CBC has to say about it:

cbc-comments.png


They must have changed their minds about when the comments would be open. For awhile they weren't even letting us read them during the off-hours, and when I actually got a reply to my complaint, they had some mealy-mouthed excuse about how much moderating it takes. I pointed out that after they've closed an article to further comments, there is no moderating required whatsoever if people just want to read them.

The moderation there is nuts, btw. They don't follow their own guidelines, as some pretty awful comments have been allowed to stay up, and some of mine have been censored when all I did was state something factual.

Are you saying that we should all be certified not to be bots before we can use social media?

Why not? You have to prove you're not a bot before you can use fanfiction.net, so why not social media?

Still not getting from anyone what these opinions that are potentially at risk are. Vaccine safety concerns? Quebec sovereignty?

The right-wing in Canada has, to a large extent, gone past what was considered normal right-wing in the days of Lyin' Brian Mulroney (in the '80s and early '90s) and all the way over to BS!C Trump worshipers who think the worst of the Republicans are exactly what Canada should have.

In my province, the government does not want people discussing covid. They've spread misinformation that the former NDP leader (Rachel Notley) was intending to send teams door to door, forcibly vaccinating people. The anti-vaxxers here are way past certifiably nuts. It's not just covid they don't want vaccinations for now. They don't want kids vaccinated against measles, they don't want flu and covid shots to be available at pharmacies (or anywhere else) and they absolutely cannot wrap their minds around the fact that the reason we don't have all the epidemics we used to have is BECAUSE of vaccination programs.

In the meantime, all it takes is one group of parents in one region to refuse to vaccinate their kids, and one sick kid to infect others, and boom. Once again, there's an outbreak of what didn't used to be a problem because people used common sense.

It's funny because the "no" vote doesn't accurately reflect the reasoning. The reasons for "no" range from "this could further harm marginalised people" all the way to "i don't want people to associate my opinions with me as a person". Hmm.

Given the vindictive nature of the current provincial government here, there are times when I self-censor on Danielle Smith's FB page. My own MLA blocked me years ago for criticizing the daft curriculum she and a bunch of cronies came up with (none of whom were real teachers who worked with real children). And given that she's now the health minister, I'm prevented from seeing announcements and information that could be important.
 
The moderation there is nuts, btw. They don't follow their own guidelines, as some pretty awful comments have been allowed to stay up, and some of mine have been censored when all I did was state something factual.
"To encourage thoughtful and respectful conversations..." while meanwhile I've seen CBC commenters outright advocate putting homeless people into concentration camps.
 
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